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Norman Blackburn

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« Reply #150 on: February 14, 2010, 05:23:12 AM »
Quote from: Bruce W. Clingan
For all we know there could be people participating in this thread who have made application at the BOD/BOD level and have not been given the chance.  Sometimes it is not a matter of stepping up but a matter of being let in.

I have seen each and every single application for BoG and EC jobs over the past year.  Just like the real world, applications are on how you sell yourself.

Bruce Clingan

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« Reply #151 on: February 14, 2010, 09:35:28 AM »
Quote from: Norman Blackburn
I have seen each and every single application for BoG and EC jobs over the past year.  Just like the real world, applications are on how you sell yourself.

My comment was ambiguous.  Someone says that many people are in this thread are wining and don't even have the gumption to step up, I was just stating that that is not the case.  I know a few people in this thread who have made attempts to be on the BOG/BOD that is really all I am saying Norm.  I would have no idea as to the specific qualifications of anyone who applied for a position, but more particularly those who were selected, as I really don't know any of them.  I am sure, or at least hope, that each position is advertised, and everyone who applies is given the appropriate level of consideration based on their qualifications both on and off the network.

Norman Blackburn

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« Reply #152 on: February 14, 2010, 10:13:48 AM »
Quote from: Bruce W. Clingan
My comment was ambiguous.  Someone says that many people are in this thread are wining and don't even have the gumption to step up, I was just stating that that is not the case.  I know a few people in this thread who have made attempts to be on the BOG/BOD that is really all I am saying Norm.  I would have no idea as to the specific qualifications of anyone who applied for a position, but more particularly those who were selected, as I really don't know any of them.  I am sure, or at least hope, that each position is advertised, and everyone who applies is given the appropriate level of consideration based on their qualifications both on and off the network.

Hi Bruce,

Rest assured each and every application is given appropriate consideration.   More out of interest than anything else I ran the names of those in this thread against those who applied for BoG roles following a NOTAM.  Unless I missed something, which is quite possible, the results were underwhelming.

Luke Kolin

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« Reply #153 on: February 14, 2010, 11:18:38 AM »
Quote from: Norman Blackburn
More out of interest than anything else I ran the names of those in this thread against those who applied for BoG roles following a NOTAM.

It's worth noting as well that several BoG positions filled (and vacated) recently have not been NOATM'd.

Cheers!

Luke

Gary Millsaps

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« Reply #154 on: February 14, 2010, 11:26:27 AM »
Quote from: Norman Blackburn
I have seen each and every single application for BoG and EC jobs over the past year.  Just like the real world, applications are on how you sell yourself.

Norm,

Without attempting to read anything more into your response than is there and with respect, you seem to be implying a rather shallow and short-sighted approach to vetting individuals for positions the BoG is responsible for. Your assertion that applications reflect how well someone "sells" themselves is a surety. However, in the real world, it is only a minor piece of the total package that is the individual - a door opener - if you will. Real world organizations may determine an applicant's basic level of qualifications from the information in their application/resume/cv but they go to much greater lengths to confirm the individual as the best applicant for the job.

Confirming an individual's capabilities through a verifiable series of past accomplishments is another cornerstone of evaluation of one's suitability. As the level of positional responsibility and management increase, so to must the candidates' track record of accomplishments and direct involvement at that level be clearly evident and more importantly, used as a barometer in consideration of that individual as the best candidate for the position.

While VATSIM may not have (nor require) as stringent a set of requirements or standards as the real world for any one position, it is in the best interest of the organization and its membership that substantive effort be expended by the BoG and others in thoroughly vetting individuals for the positions they are seeking. Relying solely upon the information in an application and how well someone "sells" themselves leaves the impression that positions go to whomever can "lay it on the thickest" - telling you what you want to hear; and is an abrogation of the responsibility for proper management of VATSIM itself. It further opens the question of accountability for such abrogation.

I again re-emphasize I'm not saying this is what is occurring; your post leaves the impression this is so. I will make a few personal observations on the subject. When vetting candidates, I am aware of no direct interviews of the candidates having ever been held by the BoG or the appointed selection committees. I openly admit I am not aware of all the actions that may or may not have been  performed in this regard but can affirm I found it puzzling in those cases where I was involved. This leads me (and I believe would any other reader of this) to the conclusion that sole reliance on the application data is truly the "norm" as a selection process at the upper levels of VATSIM management. Second, I find it "interesting" that of late, there have been several "Director" positions mentioned (even thanked from the BoG level no less) and members using such designations in forum signature blocks and elsewhere. I am unaware of any announcement of these positions being created nor opened for candidacy at any level of  VATSIM. I admit great curiosity over these as in one instance, records show that at the time of the mention of such, the person "anointed" with an ATC-related "Directorship" had not attained an S2 rating on VATSIM. What vetting practice missed this fact or is it of no importance?

Lastly, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's day here. I'm just looking for what constitutes a level playing field. I know it will be easy for readers and responders to chalk my comments up to a "sore loser" complex or "why here in this forum?" With all the evidence I have in-hand and have mentioned here, I cannot help but believe a return to core fundamentals of good management practice are in demand VATSIM-wide - from the BoG down to the unit level. If you will allow me, I am an advocate in this case.

Bruce Clingan

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« Reply #155 on: February 14, 2010, 03:30:19 PM »
Quote from: Norman Blackburn
Hi Bruce,

Rest assured each and every application is given appropriate consideration.   More out of interest than anything else I ran the names of those in this thread against those who applied for BoG roles following a NOTAM.  Unless I missed something, which is quite possible, the results were underwhelming.

Due to the original poster making the broad assumption that those who are complaining are not seeking "higher office", it only takes one to prove my point.  Which I can guarantee the existence of at least one.  Thanks for the research though.

Richard Jenkins

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« Reply #156 on: February 17, 2010, 12:11:20 AM »
I thought I would take a moment and share an email with you I received today. I've really been troubled by the analogy that we, the BoG and Founders, dump "Sh!#" on the divisions and then fly away. This email is an example of what we are confronted with on a regular basis. Not asking for your sympathy but to have a look from our seats for a second or two.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Hi Richard,

This letter is in response of what XXXXXXX brought up on the controller's forum.

I have been reading the Founder's Open Letter to the community over and over again. Personally, I transferred to the XXXXXXX Division because there's a lack of inclusiveness in XXXXXXX and to be in that particular XXXXXXX. I earned my S1 rating that then became S2 when the Global Rating Policy was revised to implement the version 2. My previous instructor and mentor was XXXXXX who was a really great controller and was once Deputy RD of XXXXX. While XXXXX was under his leadership promotions are really done easily, I don't even remember worrying about the lack of instructor or mentor because the training department is well organized. But those are the early days of XXXXX, later on, he stepped down and from there I haven't seen him online for quite sometime, in fact, until now.

So I continued controlling in XXXXX given that he already stepped down. My eyes aren't open as to what really is going on within the Division or the ACC itself. Then later on, XXXXX elected a 16 year old and S3 at that time to lead XXXXX, he then became the new ATM of our ACC. We can't do much about it but it brought up some serious talks within the Division. Nothing happened when he was in position, months later, he resigned and his DATM took the ATM's seat and the FE became the DATM. Another S3 leading the place, then later on, he also stepped down and the DATM took the ATM's seat once again now the Events Director of XXXXX, XXXXX. Now the ATM of XXXXX is XXXXXX who is I1 rated, hot headed, hot shot and more of a loose canon. Sorry but that is how I can describe this guy. We joined the ACC together and from there I have witnessed his attitudes, and XXXXX a friend of mine told me that he is aware of this guy's attitude.

On the founder's open letter, our dear founder mentioned something about the lack of inclusivity and the abuse of authority by the staff. Well I have witnessed this when I was still in XXXXX that urged me to transfer somewhere else just so I'm away from XXXXX and it's politics which is worst than XXXXX's issues. I would like to discuss the lack of inclusivity first, I took the S3 promotion exam TWICE but wasn't promoted. First of all because of XXXXX imposition of difficult over the shoulder exam and his demand of a high controller standards that is not supported by our areas traffic levels. I end up rescheduling my test over and over again. He made XXXXX his virtual kingdom and doing things personally, literally personal. As an example, I was shooting for my long deserved OTS since my arrival to the network back in early 2007's, he proposed different mechanics to me. He made it a game show type of stuff. You will start with 20 points, and each mistake you make will cause those points to be reduced and that might result to your failure. My mistakes are detailed below:

    * Not reminding the pilot to squawk mode normal given that there's an APP controller online who could easily do it himself should the pilot now squawk normal prior taking off. In XXXXX, a more busier place than XXXXX, I've had no problems when my TWR controller forgets about it, because I know that I can do it myself and is not a real big deal. I understand that people tends to forget things at times, even real world pilots and controllers do.
    * Incomplete taxi instructions. In XXXXX, I don't really have to issue taxi instructions completely. Say for example a pilot requests a taxi to runway 32, I usually just say "Taxi to holding point 32, via taxiway Romeo to intersection Kilo. Altimeter XXXX" basically between the two points I issued there's 1 or 2 more taxiway that he has to go through, and it's up to him how he will get to runway 32 using the directions I issued. That's where his AD chart comes in handy. In XXXXX, failure to issue all the turn points for taxiways deducts your points. I tried complaining to him over and over again, but he refused and insisted his impossible mechanics. Take note that there's no updated AD charts in our vACC and I was basing my taxi instructions using the fixes I can see on our sector file, which he later informed me, outdated. From there I already loose 5 points and already considered a failure. He wants me to issue the instructions POINT by POINT.


Notice sir that he is imposing some very difficult mechanics that is not really supported by the local traffic. When I had the mistake of not informing the pilot to squawk normal prior taking off, he called me STUPID which was really hard in the chest to hear someone calling you that when you don't really have any relation to that person. But what can I do, he's my instructor. That is the kind of person he is. Calling me DUMB, STUPID and all degrading words you can hear a person say. After being offended for several times, I called on our ATM's attention and I got no answer. As if telling me, what do they care. I even approached the Division Director and also got no response or any possible action. I believe one of our fellow founders XXXXX knows what I'm talking about here. If XXXXX can call a founder IMMATURE what more can he tell to a Student?

The other month, I had a talk with him after months of leaving XXXXX. I told him that why is it that XXXXX only has 4 radar controllers. 1 INS, 2 S3 and 1 C3. But then again, others are stuck with their OBS rating and aerodrome rating. Which is really discouraging especially in a place that is not really that active in terms of traffic movements. So what will happen in the end? The ACC becoming inactive and partially active because there's no dedication by the staff. So then I told him if he needs my help with the staffing if there's a major event coming up, I told him that humbly and he refused and told me he need no XXXXX controller in his place. See the conversation I have attached and witness it yourself, sir. Speaking like that given that he is an Air Traffic Manager of a VATSIM FIR.

Another thing is the inactivity of the RD. Compare XXXXX RD to other RD, the active participation of the XXXXX RD to XXXXX RD is relatively different. But I understand XXXXX job requires him to be away from time to time to his VATSIM responsibilities. But why not give it to someone who can handle the job better? Also look at the XXXXX Division Staff who is clearly inactive and not doing things to re-activate the partially dead Division. Compare XXXX to other VATSIM Divisions, they are the most inactive. Look at XXXXX, their staff I know of are really doing things to get their controllers trained. Remember that I have worked closely with XXXXX being his former Deputy Director, Director of Airspace/Operations of the Division and also co-Founder until XXXXX and other XXXXX guys joined XXXXX for good. If only XXXXX Staffs control XXX itself I think the place would be more better. But I understand that it isn't possible. Now I'm about to take my C1 rating with XXXXX. A place that is away from any politics of any kind, a place filled with happy living controllers who are dedicated and professional. I'm happy in where I'm currently at.

I hope this didn't put you to sleep sir and that this issue be opened with the appropriate staffs of the Region and Division. I have approached you sir because I am confident that this will be heard, that this will not be ignored and that appropriate investigation and or monitoring will be done. Thank you very much for listening, sir![/quote]

Andrew Murfin

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« Reply #157 on: April 19, 2010, 09:57:02 PM »
I read this while I was controlling an empty airspace today.  I got from the beginning talking about a sup abusing power, then to suggestions of CoC additions, then to some stuff about how vatsim started, then an interesting scenario involving a CoC addition, then I skipped a few pages and saw something about payware developers, then skipped some more and saw people argueing about something I couldn't understand because to understand it I would have had to read the previous 1-3 pages, then skipped to the last page and saw a censored email about dumping Sh!# somewhere.  VATSIM is not only an ATC/Flying simulator, it's a politics simulator!  Some of you are angered, tickled or given something to do by this, I'm interested.  Next we can bring in the labor jobs, medical jobs and maybe even various housing projects.  This is like the Truman Show, and frankly I'm amazed it's still free.

Andrew Murfin

Brian Pryor

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« Reply #158 on: April 19, 2010, 10:01:17 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Murfin
I read this while I was controlling an empty airspace today.  I got from the beginning talking about a sup abusing power, then to suggestions of CoC additions, then to some stuff about how vatsim started, then an interesting scenario involving a CoC addition, then I skipped a few pages and saw something about payware developers, then skipped some more and saw people argueing about something I couldn't understand because to understand it I would have had to read the previous 1-3 pages, then skipped to the last page and saw a censored email about dumping Sh!# somewhere.  VATSIM is not only an ATC/Flying simulator, it's a politics simulator!  Some of you are angered, tickled or given something to do by this, I'm interested.  Next we can bring in the labor jobs, medical jobs and maybe even various housing projects.  This is like the Truman Show, and frankly I'm amazed it's still free.

Andrew Murfin

Politics comes into play at some level anywhere through life , at work, at school etc. VATSIM is by no means exempt from that.  I don't know your age Andrew but by the time one reaches an adult they should be able to identify that.

Sometimes I personally think it's better to let sleeping dogs...well sleep rather than resurrect them 2 months later.

Thomas King

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« Reply #159 on: April 20, 2010, 09:45:14 AM »
Quote from: Brian Pryor
Politics comes into play at some level anywhere through life , at work, at school etc. VATSIM is by no means exempt from that.  I don't know your age Andrew but by the time one reaches an adult they should be able to identify that.

Sometimes I personally think it's better to let sleeping dogs...well sleep rather than resurrect them 2 months later.

So you can't post observations on Forums anymore? Imagine that.

I would sort of call it resurection, but then again someone else would have replied and this thread would be blown out again.

I don't agree with "Well since it has been xx months/days/years etc, therefore you can't post anymore".  Its a free country right?  You can post if you want to, as long as it is within the CoC obviously and isn't harassment to another induvidual.

And VATSIM is a very political place, just look at the staff forums.  My policy is to stay out of it as much as possible and nobody will attack you.  The "If you don't talk to them, they won't talk to you"  has worked so far.

If people want to make their point, and argue til Kingdom Come, thats fine with me, but do it in a PM.