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Messages - Isak Moebius

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General Discussion / Proof that the VATUSA exam questions are misleading
« on: November 27, 2011, 01:27:04 PM »
Not worried about it anymore. I can wait the 7 days

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General Discussion / Basic Controller Exam and choice of ARTCC
« on: November 27, 2011, 11:10:17 AM »
Its not a lecture the 7 days is a long time which does give us quite a while to study. However the point is I could complete some more reading and freshen up again and be ready for the exam again in 24 hours. Don't take it personal. This is not a lecture aimed at staff.

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General Discussion / Proof that the VATUSA exam questions are misleading
« on: November 27, 2011, 10:45:00 AM »
Okay you guys aren't even understanding the point of this.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]I'm also going to suggest you contact Tom Seeley or Gary to clarify your points. In any organization, professional or volunteer, you'd be pretty heavily reprimanded for posting the exact copies of test questions and answers in a public forum to begin with.[/quote]

First of all I listed all the answers and only notated the one that was wrong. Never said which one was right so the next guy now has a 2/3 chances of getting it wrong too.

I am not saying that 7110.65 should not be read. If you feel like you want to read it then fine that's your prerogative. I might actually read it at some point but what I am trying to say is yes VATUSA probably gathers its information from the 7110.65 and probably some other ATC sources but to quote Skylar

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]My issue with utilizing the 7110.65 for answering questions is most of the tests are outdated to the point where I was bit in the butt by following the 7110.65 (albeit it was notated in the VATUSA training, but I was treating it as the 7110.65 was more accurate, therefore it was right).[/quote]

The 7110.65 is updated more often obviously because it pertains to real life situations where making sure everything is done correctly is of vital importance. But in addition to this I am sure the 7110.65 is a wealth of knowledge that just cannot be copy and pasted into a training material environment such as the one here.

My point to make is that the wording of the questions above and the questions themselves should really only be focused on how the positions work on VATSIM. For example the Approach Controller Primary Function: On VATSIM the APP controller also controls Departure and that is how it is taught in my ARTCC from what I hear almost every other ARTCC. So when I come into a test with practical training and experience on the APP controller position and see the word Approach Controller it is obvious to assume that the APP controller is controlling both positions because well VATUSA is a VATSIM controller training environment and none of this training should be used for real life controller training as the disclaimer states.

When there are questions on the test that pertain more to real life operations next to questions that pertain more to the VATSIM environment it can be misleading.

I would think that VATUSA cannot assume that everyone will read the 7110.65 or even have knowledge of it for that matter. So in the same light I would naturally think that even though the training material may be based of the 7110.65 in some form or another that the test questions would only pertain to the material found on the VATUSA site. Most of the questions do yes however some don't and as Skylar said going to the 7110.65 for help on answers could end up making me select the wrong answer anyway.  

My point isn't to say that the 7110.65 is worthless its just to say that the wording of the questions can be confusing and cause one to answer incorrectly. Which I admit can be test taker error in many and probably most cases.

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General Discussion / Proof that the VATUSA exam questions are misleading
« on: November 26, 2011, 08:38:09 PM »
I don't expect VATUSA to include all of the information from the 7110.65. That would be ridiculous to assume. However I would expect that VATUSA's tests would not include any material that isn't in the training material on the VATUSA site. However often they do.

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General Discussion / Proof that the VATUSA exam questions are misleading
« on: November 26, 2011, 08:33:47 PM »
Well actually this and many other things were explained in great detail to myself and a lot of the Seattle ARTCC this evening in our Teamspeak by Gary Millsaps.

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General Discussion / Proof that the VATUSA exam questions are misleading
« on: November 26, 2011, 08:24:05 PM »
Regarding the 7110.65. This is a hobby of simulation controlling. I am not paid to do this, and I never would fathom that I would become an ATC in real life. This in mind the 7110.65 should be irrelevant to my hobby and not important. I haven't even read the first sentence of the 7110.65 and I don't particularly care to. If VATUSA's training material is supposed to be designed to teach me how to be an effective and good controller on VATSIM, which it does, then the 7110.65 should not matter.  This is a hobby, the 7110.65 is an ATC bible particularly aimed at training real world controllers. Which I, and I am sure many other controllers on VATSIM are not. Because of this VATUSA should never have any of its test material based off of material from the 7110.65 that is not in its very own training material on the VATUSA site.

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General Discussion / Proof that the VATUSA exam questions are misleading
« on: November 26, 2011, 06:03:35 PM »
This is just two questions off of the S3 exam which proves that the test questions are extremely misleading and the questions have multiple answers or all of the answers are correct.

Question: What is the primary job of the radar approach controller?
A. To ensure aircraft reach their destination
B. To ensure expeditious flow of traffic
C. To ensure separation of radar arrivals
D. To provide radar service

-I answered D. To provide radar service which was incorrect
-First off I have gone through the entire S3 training material and no where in there does it use the exact words "The Primary job of the radar approach controller." Which of course isn't expected but thats just to point out it isn't obvious, which it shouldn't be.
-Second on VATSIM the Approach controller also controls the departure position if there is not a Departure controller online which is most of the time so wording the question as it is above does not specify that it is solely referring to the APP controller.
-Assuming that it is referring to an APP controller controlling the entire sector including departure (which is normal to assume) then all the answers are correct.

This next one is the most misleading:

Question: Which of the following is not a required piece of information that must be given to the pilot in an uncharted holding clearance?
A. Expect Further Clearance Time
B. Radial from the holding fix to hold on
C. Expected action after departing the hold
D. Direction of Turns in the hold

-I answered D. Direction of Turns in the hold which is incorrect
-The following is quoted from VATUSA S3 training under Issuing Holding Instructions in the first paragraph "The standard hold is one that consists of right hand turns and 1 minute legs." Also quoted from the same page: "Direction of holding pattern turns only if left turns are to be made, the pilot requests it, or you consider it necessary."
-This question states that the holding clearance is "UNCHARTED" not "NON STARDARD"
-Because of this it would be normal to assume that the direction of the turns would not be part of the clearance

This isn't the first time I have seen questions that are misleading or completely irrelevant and I have found many times questions have multiple answers but they aren't the answer VATUSA wants obviously. In order to pass these test you have to get all of the obvious questions correct and then you have to get lucky on the ones that are misleading which make the 7 day waiting period even more frustrating. Now don't think that I am complaining about the 7 day wait I am just pointing out that the 7 day wait is like insult to injury when the questions don't make sense and cause one to fail.

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General Discussion / Basic Controller Exam and choice of ARTCC
« on: November 26, 2011, 05:02:43 PM »
Yeah about the 7 day waiting period. I could easily study the material and be ready to retest in 24 hours. 7 days is excessive to say the least. There is no way I need 7 days to re read through the material and understand it especially since I have spent the last 4 weeks working on S3 live and going through all the procedures. A little bit a reading would suffice as a refresher.

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