I'd like more transparency in the division regarding the state of VATUSA. We haven't held a townhall in quite some time and I feel like I'm out of the loop in terms of what is happening at the division level. I know that I, as well as other members of my facility, have questions and concerns about how the division is operating. I call question to sudden and frequent staff changes. As an outsider who is not a staff member (and does not have access to staff related forums), I cannot tell if this division is being run into the ground or not. While this division may not be a dictatorship, there are enough obscurity and lack of public forum that it is impossible to differentiate what is going on at upper levels from that of an authoritarian regime.

I promised myself I would stay out of this.  I don't speak for the Division and I won't speak for #1 or #2.  And although I have more than a couple of opinions on what I have read here I am going to limit myself to this one question, because i feel the answer to it is important and may in some way go to the heart of the matter.

Josh, you said you feel out of the loop.  There isn't enough transparency.  We should have more town hall meetings, and the lack of a public forum troubles you and, you know what, it should.  So let me ask you, if there truly is a lack of a public forum why haven't you asked your ATM the questions that trouble you?  You have questions and concerns why haven't you brought them to your ATM?  I could go on, but each point ends with why haven't you brought your concerns to your ATM?   He is the point person for your ARTCC.  He has, or should have, the answer you seek and if he doesn't , he knows who to speak with to get it.  Your ATM is supposed to do more than just kick people off the roster because they haven't controlled enough last month.  He is your representative to the Division.  You want a democracy?  You got one.  Convince your ATM to keep you informed. Convince your ATM to make sure that all of the new guys get trained.  Convince your ATM to bring to the Division any questions, problems, or good ideas that he thinks will enhance what we do. Convince your ATM to sit down with the ATMs of the surrounding ARTCCs and develop a plan for sharing information and creating good time events.

You want democracy?  You want a town hall meeting?  You want to meet with the Division to find  out what's going on?  No you don't. You want a town hall meeting because it's easy to roast people, policy and plans in a group setting than argue with your ATM about something he already knows about and maybe even agrees with. 

One last thing. Is a town hall meeting an important piece of this puzzle?  It is. But it is because it's a public relations requirement and not because anything good ever comes out of them. 

I'm done here now.  Any ARTCC staff member who wants me for whatever reason need only ask.  Anyone else can sit down in their ARTCC and get the news from the ARTCC town hall meeting.  Uhmm... you do have them right?   Your ARTCC isn't being run into the ground is it?

Quote from: Ryan Parry on September 06, 2018, 11:20:25 PM

I tried to get ZOA setup with VATSTAR but it fell apart because we don't meet some of the requirements they've set for a few check rides.

Untrue.  It fell apart when I stopped receiving responses to emails about setting up a time to meet & discuss.  Let's get back in touch & try again to get it moving.

That is great to hear.  Now, will you commit to tightening up the level of of information and instruction your program provides regarding pilot to ATC communication, and the pilots' ability to fly basic arrival and departure procedures, regardless of what the VATSIM standards require?

Great post Dhruv!  I don't understand how any controller won't be able to find something to take from this that will make them a better controller.  Using a real world controller as an example is also a great choice.  But I have to tell you, and I don't disagree with you often, but you have my attention here.   One of the first things I found missing from these examples came during the position relief briefing.  Your example presumes that you and I are equals in our ability to absorb the information needed before I take over the position.  But that isn't accurate.  I could never absorb that information as quickly as you could.  That's just your experience which is much more than mine, so already, one minute into my shift I'm two minutes behind.  Different learning curves have to considered during any of this.

Also, your experience has taught you some of these tools that a new controller hasn't been taught yet.  Which begs the question should we be teaching shortcuts to our new controllers.  Isn't it more important that they learn how to do it for what I will for now call "the right way".  Aren't more and more people lately screaming that we need to do more by the .65?  I'm not saying that in the long run you aren't advocating that, I know you are, but isn't that at risk here?

Is there something our training staffs can take away from this? Yes.  Meg is right when she says that using this as a training tool will be a positive for her controllers.  What went unsaid is my question, for all of her controllers, or only those who can absorb the information and learn the proper time and place to use it?

Now is this something that we should be showing our controllers? At some point  probably.  But at what point? Where does teaching shortcuts get in the way of teaching .65.  How about GRP?  More importantly, and no offense intended my friend, but when does what ZMP teach or require of its controllers get to be the norm for ZBW, or anywhere else. Please understand, I'm not trying to compare your suggestions to what any ARTCC should be teaching, although I know it must sound that way.  But every ARTCC has real world controllers now too, a great resource for VATUSA controllers that we never had previously.  But like anything else, I would bet that even their experiences vary.

Did I happen to mention that issuing instructions to someone like AJ in his 757 and me on VATSIM are going to get you two different levels of response.  One real good (I hope!), one real not so good.  It just is the way it is, and it is the same thing that everyone likes to complain about and blame everything for everything on. There are pilots out there who don't know their left from their right and until Mr. Sherman and his staff deal with that, it won't matter how many pilots they certify, because they will always be out there.

I think it better that we teach the controllers to lighten up a little, learn the right way, then learn some of your tools and suggestions, and learn how to deal with ungodly levels of traffic that we see during the FNO to the best of their ability and just get over it.  I know I very rarely ear controllers complain that the even they held Saturday night was ruined because there were so many bad pilots. No, those events go off just fine, because there aren't that many pilots that overflow the arrival rates.

I would advocate that we are better off, long term, if we remind our Instructors to teach their students that this is supposed to be fun.

Can you come to SCT and teach the Burbank area peeps about this? I literally overheard one of them on the landline the other day say that "We don't use speeds here" smh

Derek is available for weddings, funerals, Sweet 16's. etc.  on a fee for service basis.  Our fees are reasonable and our requirements unreasonable.  Please contact me for scheduling and fee arrangements at "Have ATC Will Travel"

I started to write a reply to Nick but decided that it would serve no purpose to continue bantering this back and forth for the world to see.  It's clear to me that we are arguing several different issues so I am going to craft a reply in private, that we may continue the discussion without interruption or outside commentary.


Thank you all for your comments, and I am glad the event went well.[size=78%] [/size]

Quote from: Ira Robinson on July 25, 2018, 03:17:45 PM

That's funny.But I am not an ATM, and neither are the other 675 people who have viewed this announcement and may be flying in or out that day.  I think Luke asks a valid question and deserves to be answered.  What will happen to the pilots waiting to depart?  What will happen to the pilots already in the air?  The NOTAM said pilots should expect delays.  Does that mean arriving flights, should expect to be assigned a HOLD some time during their arrival?

I asked Luke personally if he was joking about this question on teamspeak, and relayed his response to Jamar before he made the "ATM Exemption" post:

<14:35:45> "Clay Brock": on your last post for the OSH event
<14:35:52> "Clay Brock": were you kidding?
<14:35:57> "Luke Kakert": yes lol
<14:36:04> "Clay Brock": ok
<14:36:23> "Clay Brock": sorry, just the sarcasm doesn't come across as easily in writing
<14:36:49> "Luke Kakert": but i am 100% sure there are going to be people that wont like the "airport is closed" part
<14:36:55> "Luke Kakert": i was just trying to be funny
<14:37:06> "Luke Kakert": and alot of people cant take a joke on here anymore


I do see the validity in the question though , so here is the answer, as stated previously:

Quote from: Clay Brock on July 24, 2018, 11:25:50 PM

KOSH airport will close to traffic at 2100z, and the FSX Blue Angels will start their modified demo at that time.

Out of respect to the FSX Blue Angels, we will not allow pilots to depart or arrive KOSH until the demonstration is over. Unless an emergency is declared, KOSH will be closed for the duration of the FSXBA demo. Pilots will have 4 whole hours to fly in with ATC, and if they cannot make the airport in that amount of time, then they will have to divert, or reconnect on the ground at OSH to watch the demonstration.


In regards these final questions:

Quote from: Ira Robinson on July 25, 2018, 03:17:45 PM

how are people supposed to be able to see this demonstration you have planned?  Will everyone have to be using vPilot and model matching in order to see it?  Sign on to utube or something?

Pilots will be able to see the FSX Blue Angel demo by being connected to VATSIM on the ground at KOSH. No specific pilot client is required to watch the demonstration, but model matching will be at the pilot's discretion. As far as I'm aware, the FSXBA team will connect to the network under the type code "F18". People can set up model matching as necessary using this information.
Note that FSX vPilot users should not encounter model matching issues, as FSX has a default F18, and vPilot uses airplanes in the sim for model matching



I hope this post clears up most of the confusion, and if there are any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Oh, I have a lot more questions, but they will keep until after the event.  And they will be asked of the staff of ZAU.  You know, the people who are ultimately responsible for the event, and not some visiting controller who has taken it upon himself to interpret for the rest of us what the rules of the event are.

Good luck Saturday.

Congratulations Blake. Good luck going forward.  I am sure there is enough to do to keep you very busy.


Daniel, there aren't the words to describe the amount and quality of the work you have turned in for us.  Of course having to deal with those of us who don't understand the usage of anything beyond the coffee cup holder didn't help, so you have had your work cut out for you!


But you managed, and did better than anyone could have imagined.  Now you leave us in new, good hands.  I know that all of the members of the Division are thankful for your time energy and efforts, especially the VATUSA crew here in the big building.


So good luck, and don't be a stranger.

Registration is now open for those looking to attend in person. If you are not a local/visitor controller at ZMA, send me an email at [email protected]

Can we get some more information on what is going on?  Location, cost, is this just on the 25th or is there more going on?  Hard to commit without having some information besides it's in Florida.  It is in Florida, right?