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Messages - Brian Pryor

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76
General Discussion / Who is the final authority?
« on: February 18, 2010, 04:35:12 PM »
The answer in my opinion is you talk with your "chain of command", and get it in writing. This thread I predict will have a shelf life of a few hours before it turns into another pitchfork and torch fest against the BoG/EC.

We get it Jason, you and a few others are upset with the BOG/EC... Why do you have to throw more chaos into VATUSA with these threads and stirring of the pot. Let's get things fixed around here because of the voids left behind by the departing admin., and revisit these hotbed issues in a week or two when we have an administration in place.

77
General Discussion / Check-In Responsibility
« on: February 11, 2010, 08:59:30 PM »
Quote from: Nicholas Taylor
Dave,

It seems to me that you "bend over backwards" even more by creating these little "minutes" documents when you could just record the thing in TS, compress it, and have it available to download. That way you'll have transparency in EVERYTHING you do instead of choosing not to include certain topics in the "minutes" document (as Luke pointed out above); which is a pretty poor representation of the meeting in my opinion. Look at VATUSA, all the instructor meetings, etc., etc., are recorded and available to download. That takes much less time and effort too.

-Nick

One of the problems that they run into vs the staff meetings we have is executive session, items in ES are usually confidential in nature, and while editing would not be difficult it can become time consuming.

78
General Discussion / Check-In Responsibility
« on: February 11, 2010, 08:04:50 PM »
Quote from: Dave Klain
Tom,

You raise some valid points.  From your perspective I can see why you feel the way you do.  One thing I would ask you to consider is that VATSIM's purpose in life is NOT to train ATC students or prepare people for ATC or flight training.  At the end of the day, this is a hobby that people do for relaxation.  One of the problems that has frustrated the founders and the BOG is that some (note I say "some" and not "all" ARTCC staffs took this "ultra-realist approach" where people were expected to have darn near the level of knowledge and skills as required of real-world controllers who do this for a living.  Some people would say "what is wrong with that?  Realism is good and we are trying to be as realistic as possible..."  My counter to that is that ATC students at UND and ERAU are a VERY small population and if VATSIM only catered to them, we would very soon be a network of just a few hundred people.  

I've used this analogy in the past, so forgive me if it seems tired, but I think it represents what the VATSIM leadership's vision for the network is.  In flight simulation, imagine a spectrum of realism.  At one end is the pure gamer...picture the Microsoft Gaming Zone.  At the other end is the ultrarealist...the person who spends 6 hours flight planning, follows every step, etc.  Clearly those two extremes will not be happy with how the other end of the spectrum operates.  By the same token, those extremes represent a TINY part of the entire flight simulation community.  For better or for worse (we think for better, but you certainly may think otherwise), VATSIM has made a conscious decision NOT to cater to either extreme.  Instead we try to cater to the 80 percent in between.  The result is that some of the folks who want to do things as realistically as possible will be frustrated (as you are) and some of the people who just want to get on and control or fly will be frustrated (as others are), but we are meeting the needs of the MAJORITY of the VATSIM membership.

What you have done in going from VATSIM through school and now to a job with the FAA is a great thing.  My suspicion is that 5 or 10 years from now you might not be as interested in recreating every nuance of ATC on VATSIM as you are today because you live it in real life.  I got an interesting email from a real world 777 Captain on this very subject just a couple of days ago.  His comment was "I go on VATSIM to relax and as a break from real life...I am not at all interested in recreating all of the crap and bureaucracy, including stage checks and currency requirements, that I deal with in my real job.  That is why I am no longer interested in controlling on this network."  

I can see where you are coming from, but would ask you to look at it from my (and the rest of the leadership team's perspective).  While you and the rest of the ATC students at UND and ERAU and ATC students-in-waiting/wannabees want one level of realism, the reality is that you are a TINY percentage of the overall VATUSA population.  A vocal and active percentage, but a small percentage nonetheless.  I would submit to you that the majority of the controllers in VATUSA have no idea that this thread is going on, that VATUSA1 has resigned or that there is all this turmoil and gnashing of teeth.  All they want to do is come home from work, have  a beer and connect to the network for a few hours to fly or control.  I've got the membership population stats to prove that the average member is between 25 and 40 years old, male, out of school and doing this for recreation.  Most of them aren't interested in a perfect simulation of the real world, they want something that isn't a game with a bunch of teenagers running around being idiots, but they also don't want to deal with a lot of the crap that has been implemented in many parts of VATUSA by well-meaning and motivated staffers who have a different vision for the network.  There are presently 3713 controllers in VATUSA with a rating of S1 or above...only 945 are even on this forum.  

There are a lot of members out there who aren't interested in all of this rule making and empire-building...they just want to get on and CONTROL.  I have been laughed by several ARTCC staff members for making the point that "if a guy only comes on and controls 1 hour every other month (6 hours a year) as part of his recreational enjoyment of VATSIM, that is 6 hours of controller availability we would otherwise never have had and that is a good thing."  Those staffers have told me that this guy won't be familiar with current SOPs, procedures, etc. and should not be allowed to connect because he will "embarrass the ARTCC."  At the end of the day, no one is in any danger and we are here to have fun, yet we are limiting people's ability to contribute based on idiotic ideas like this?  ZAU (where I control right now) has a requirement a person log on and control at least 1 hour a month or they will be dropped off the roster.  That is NOT a VATSIM requirement.  That is NOT a VATNA requirement.  That is NOT a VATUSA requirement (although similar requirements exist in almost every ARTCC in VATUSA).  It is a local facility requirement.  Amazingly enough, just about every other part of the world manages to function without these rules which do nothing but EXCLUDE people from controlling, even if for just six hours a year...

When I (and Jeremy who posted above by the way) first became a VATSIM controller, I started out as ORD GND/DEL.  All training and about 95% of controlling at ZAU was done at KORD because that was the airport and that is where the traffic was.  There was none of this "need special training to control at one of the big airports" foolishness...people just got online and controlled.  If a pilot (or a controller) didn't realize that a STAR or an Approach had been updated, they laughed about it and quickly got the updated chart (or used the old one) and moved on...with everyone having a good time in their evening's relaxation.  Today if a pilot happened to have the old chart/STAR in his flight plan he is as likely to be chewed out by a controller and/or forced to refile his flight plan, look up new stuff before he is given a departure clearance.  That may cost that pilot 20 minutes of the 1 or 2 hours he had that evening to recreate on our network...and it may turn him off.  THAT is why there is a big push coming down from the founders and the BOG.  THAT is why GRP was implemented.  What you see as a lowering of standards may very well be a lowering of the high standards you set for yourself and your students, but we would call that creating a set of standards that allow for people to enjoy the network and for the network to thrive.

Let me give you another example...softball leagues.  Don't know if you play softball or not, but you certainly know people who do.  You also likely know that their are teams out there who practice daily and play with the intensity of professional ballplayers.  There are also leagues out there where people go out to have fun, get a break from work, have a beer and play some ball with their friends.  The second group tries equally hard to win the game, but they don't do it at the expense of friendships and having a good time.  There is nothing wrong with the first approach to softball...but I would submit to you the second approach is the spirit and intent of the VATSIM network.  If a guy has never played softball before (or is a lousy ballplayer) and comes to one of those teams...the first one will either:

(a) outright refuse to let him play because he lacks the knowledge/skills
( accept him, put him through the ringer in making him a "good" player and odds are he will quit out of frustration.

I would submit that the second team would not only welcome him, they would let him play and have fun.  There are too many ARTCC's in VATSIM (and many of them are in VATUSA) that too closely resemble the first team and not the second...and that hurts the network overall.

To some extent GRP was "forced" down the ARTCC's throats because some of them were getting completely out of control and needed to be forced back into line with VATSIM's overall approach to flight simulation after YEARS of us working with them and trying to get them to see the light.  Part of the reason GRP 2.0 took so darn long to get done is because the EC worked very hard to get key stakeholders involved in developing the policy.  I, the rest of the BoG and the EC got our butts regularly handed to us in the forums because it took so long to get done and I repeatedly said we were taking our time to make sure we got it right.  The fact that the majority of VATSIM's membership has been happy with how GRP 2.0 came out tells me we got it right.  We didn't satisfy everyone (and that was never going to happen anyway), but we developed a compromise that most people felt they could live with.  In an organization this big, that's a win.

This email is already too long, but let me answer one more point you raise...the issue of Secret meetings, agendas, etc...while the EC does the same thing, I will just answer for the BOG and ask you to take a look at the following links:

http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45671 - BOG meeting announcement and Agenda
http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43076 - BOG meeting announcement and Agenda
http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41620 - BOG meeting announcement and Agenda
http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38447 - BOG meeting announcement and Agenda

http://www.vatsim.net/network/docs/library/bogminutes/ --- All BOG minutes which show exactly what happened and what we discussed

We bend over backwards to have transparency in what we do...and my email box is always open President at vatsim dot net.

all the best,
Dave

+1 , well said Dave

79
General Discussion / Check-In Responsibility
« on: February 10, 2010, 09:32:27 PM »
Quote from: Brian Sperduto
I'm sorry but if that is some underhanded dig at those VATUSA staff members who just quit that was completely inappropriate.

It was not intended to be a dig at anyone, it's a statement of my principles i've been taught as a leader and been in similiar wording through several leadership seminars.

The previous administration did plenty of good things for VATUSA and VATSIM, however what we needed then and now need more than ever is stability. This past administration with no disrespect, has not accomplished that task and further plagued us with instability.

While their intent is to enact change, whether that happens now or later, the members of VATUSA suffer now in the void these folks have left behind.

80
General Discussion / Check-In Responsibility
« on: February 10, 2010, 09:13:00 PM »
Quote from: Paul Byrne
Hi Richard,

Completely agree. I, like you live by a few simple rules. One of them is this: You have to lead by example. This has to come from the top down.

Cheers!

And in my experience and teachings, good leaders don't abandon the ship when the weather turns bad above them...

81
The Control Room Floor / Quick question..
« on: January 07, 2010, 08:22:25 PM »
Hi Chad,

Upon promotion by your instructor it can take up to 24 hours in most cases for the rating to change on the servers.

82
General Discussion / Thanking a Retiring Staff Member
« on: December 15, 2009, 08:54:34 PM »
Cornell, you'll be missed by myself and many in the organization.

Real life can always come up and bite, but it sounds like it's a good kind of bite I think?

In any case, cheers and thanks for your long standing service.

83
The Flight Deck / ZJX Pilot Training Center
« on: December 15, 2009, 05:06:39 PM »
How exactly does this differ from the ZLA program?

84
General Discussion / Deal or no deal?
« on: December 03, 2009, 02:29:15 PM »
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21786985/detail.html

DENVER -- The CALL7 Investigators have confirmed the FAA is investigating a Nov. 23rd incident where two passenger jets nearly collided in the airspace over Colorado.

Sources told CALL7 Investigator John Ferrugia the two planes merged on Air Traffic Control radar at the same altitude and in the same moment.

Said one source, "They were within a blink of an eye of colliding," and "It was the ugliest thing I've ever seen in all my years."

More:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21786985/detail.html

85
General Discussion / NWA188 Transcripts/Recordings released
« on: November 27, 2009, 11:51:26 AM »
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11580948

Written by: Brian Pryor

Friday, the Federal Aviation Administration released mp3 recordings and transcripts relating to the NorthWest Airlines flight 188 incident in October.

In October of this year the crew of the NorthWest flight over flew Minneapolis MN. , the crew stated after the incident that they were distracted with company business on personal laptops.

Friday's transcripts include numerous attempts by controllers to contact the pilots, attempts by other NorthWest flights to send messages to the plane, and finally the contact received from NorthWest 188 at 01:14am.

Controllers also made attempts to verify the cockpit was secure during the ordeal.

To listen to the audio recordings and read the transcripts visit the links on the left side of this story.

86
The Control Room Floor / new to atc
« on: November 25, 2009, 06:39:59 PM »
Hi there, and welcome to the world of ATC.

If you haven't yet you'll need to get assigned to the VATUSA division by filling out the following form: http://www.vatusa.net/join.php

Once there, you'll be assigned an ARTCC (area) and then the local training staff can get together with you to start training for being a controller.

Hope that is of help,

Brian Pryor
ZAB Training Admin
VATSIM Supervisor

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