How many days do i wait to transfer

Tom Huben · « **on:** March 23, 2009, 04:08:36 PM »

I am currently at ZDV but do not like it there because they have documents that conflict each other. For example: for VFR they have an SOP Class B airspace transponder codes that are different than other parts of their site.

About a week ago was controlling as DEN_GND and was sent a chat that I was issuing the wrong squawk code to VFR. VFR out of class B per the SOP is 5201,etc BUT another document has it as 1201,etc. Therefore i was sent a chat "5201?

" and I advising the TWR controller that issued the squaek per the SOP and my trainer and he said it was wrong.

therefore, i am asking to transfer to another Facility because ZDV has many docs that contridict each other. I want a region that has ONE SET OF RULES. At ZDV they use whatever document they want so there is no consistency there!

So, I am looking to transfer. How do i find my start date with ZDV and when can i transfer out?

thanks,

Tom huben
Certified at DEN thru DEL and GND.

Alex Bailey · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2009, 04:53:57 PM »

You can transfer on or around April 2nd, 2009.

The best way to handle situations such as these would be to contact the Training Administrator or Air Traffic Manager privately with your concerns. If I am understanding correctly, you haven't done this? I know the staff in Denver is more than willing to answer any questions you may have regarding your training, and their procedures. If you still have problems, I'd be glad to assist you to the best of my ability, but you would need to contact me privately as well. My email address is on the staff page and in my forum signature.

Alex Bailey · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:00:24 PM »

I just took a quick glance at Denver's SOPs and found something you should probably read over, and ask the training staff there to assist you. It appears the situation you are upset about may have been a misunderstanding on your part, depending on what the aircraft in question was intending to fly. If you were on ground, it appears you should be issuing a code of 12xx.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]VFR Pilots operating at Towered airports for circuits (T/G) or in Class B airspace will be
given a 12xx squawk code.

VFR Pilots operating operating outside the Class B airspace or at non-Towered airports
shall squawk 1200.

VFR pilots outside the Class B requesting Flight Following or practice IFR Approaches at
KDEN shall be given a 52XX squawk code[/quote]

Tom Huben · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:09:07 PM »

But in the document: VFR IN CLASS B AIRSPACE states :

Squawk codes explained:
Closed traffic: 1201, 1202 etc
Local Denver traffic (staying within the D01 area): 5201, 5202 etc
Departures: 0601, 0602, 0651, 0652, 1401, 1402 etc

This is listed on the ZDV site under Procedures/VFR/Class B Guides

So which squawk code is right? The SOP's of 1201 or the Class B VFR Guide stating 5201?My trainer says it's 5201 per the VFR Class B Guide but the SOP says otherwise. Some controllers want to use 5201 while others use 1201.

Two documents with two different squawk codes. That is why i am upset. There is not ONE SET OF RULES/PROCEDURES. It just depends which set of procedures a conroller wants to follow.

Alex Bailey · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:16:01 PM »

Looks confusing to me, too... Email your Training Administrator, Harold Rutila, and let him know your concerns.

Mike Cassel · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:47:36 PM »

Tom,

I think you'd be far better off dealing with something like this internally rather than airing it here. Keeping interlocking SOP and training documents always up to date and consistent can be a very difficult task, and any ARTCC will occasionally have similar situations. If you are looking for an ARTCC where this will never happen, it probably doesn't exist.

What really matters is the fix when something like this is discovered. I imagine it can be corrected rather easily with a simple e-mail. Transferring because of a minor problem in the documentation is a little much... the grass probably isn't any greener somewhere else. I think it would better and more productive to try and help spot inconsistencies if there are any, and help ZDV's staff out, vice demanding to leave.

Harold Rutila · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:01:41 PM »

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--][size=]I am currently at ZDV but do not like it there because they have documents that conflict each other. For example: for VFR they have an SOP Class B airspace transponder codes that are different than other parts of their site.

About a week ago was controlling as DEN_GND and was sent a chat that I was issuing the wrong squawk code to VFR. VFR out of class B per the SOP is 5201,etc BUT another document has it as 1201,etc. Therefore i was sent a chat "5201?

" and I advising the TWR controller that issued the squaek per the SOP and my trainer and he said it was wrong.

therefore, i am asking to transfer to another Facility because ZDV has many docs that contridict each other. I want a region that has ONE SET OF RULES. At ZDV they use whatever document they want so there is no consistency there!

So, I am looking to transfer. How do i find my start date with ZDV and when can i transfer out?

thanks,

Tom huben
Certified at DEN thru DEL and GND. [/size][/quote]

Okay, honest to God...I'm one of the most active individuals on this forum, Tom.

First of all, we're going through a major transition for those who aren't already aware. More GRP compliant, more documents, better sector files, etc. Some documents presented on our site are not in sync with each other. It's pretty common, Tom; don't be surprised when you see it at other facilities. At the very moment of me writing this thread, I'm sitting through a staff meeting that began about an hour ago to clarify what the heck we need to do to make everything sync up.

Just today, I reformatted and republished SIX training syllabuses and changed the backend of our site so that instructors and mentors can use them in "checklist" styles. That's a good four hours of work, plus homework, plus family, plus me. I don't have raw copies of the guides that are presented to you in .pdf formats, so that lies in the responsibility of my webmaster to remove the links.

You, sir, need to give me a break. We have been e-mailing back and forth all weekend talking about your issues with my department. I have clarified to you countless times that controllers read SOPs for the OFFICIAL information, and I have provided you the correct information from my own words in accordance with the SOP. Coming to this forum, one which I check pretty much about four times a day, and complaining about the same issues that I have already cleared up with you is simply inconsiderate and rude. I'm doing my absolute best job as the ZDV Training Administrator to ensure that we're providing you students with the information that you need to become excellent controllers, and in fact, I think I've done an excellent job thus far.

There are about fifteen students progressing through the system right now, and not one of them have complained to this extent about two digits in a VFR squawk code.

You're digging yourself a hole, and I suggest you stop. My utmost courtesy toward you in replies your all capital letter e-mails ends now. Trying to embarrass ZDV, myself, and my training staff is absolutely not going to happen.

Michael Hodge Jr · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:54:05 PM »

Harold,

Your doing a good job at TA. As for this topic it should be deleted ASAP. It serves no value whatsoever to community.