VATUSA Forums
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: J Jason Vodnansky on February 08, 2010, 09:44:02 PM
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I have heard a rumor about, and I am seeking clarification on the following...
1) Was a previous VATUSA Division Director asked by the President of VATSIM NOT to post questions in the GRP discussion?
2) Was a "more recent" VATUSA Division Director not given access to the GRP discussion even though it was asked for?
I am asking because I am curious as to how much representation the members of VATUSA had in the formation of the GRP?
Best,
Jason Vodnansky
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I was given GRP forum access when i was appointed VATUSA3 (or within the first week). At that point, I knew for sure Alex B had access, and I know for sure Andrew P did not when he resigned (unless it was given to him within the last day or two)
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I was given GRP forum access when i was appointed VATUSA3 (or within the first week). At that point, I knew for sure Alex B had access, and I know for sure Andrew P did not when he resigned (unless it was given to him within the last day or two)
I had full access to the forum and represented the opinions and ideas of each VATUSA member who shared them with me. Up until my resignation, VATUSA was entirely represented in the GRP discussion. Mike is correct.
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never had it
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never had it
And of course, you asked for it multiple times right?
JV
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And of course, you asked for it multiple times right?
JV
no comment......
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Jason, does it really matter? The past is the past...
Suck it up and get over it.
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Sure, I'll answer the questions and put an end to any rumors someone is creating.
1. No person has been told by me that they should not post questions in the GRP forum. Can't speak for Richard Jenkins but I doubt he told anyone either.
2. Just looked at the logs. Alex had access from his time as VATUSA1. Andrew never got it. I can't explain why except that when we gave him all of his divisional chief access (access to several other forums as well as moderator access to the United States forum), we missed it. I never got a request to give him access to GRP forum and was unaware he did not have access. If a request was made to another BoG member, I am not aware of it. I honestly don't know who originally gave Andrew his various accesses as VATUSA1 in the forums...we had a lot going on then with turbulence in VATUSA as well as some other issues. Typically forum access is done by Steven Cullen, but sometimes Mike Evans, George P or I cover it. Bottom line is the buck stops with me so it is my fault Andrew didn't have access and my only excuse was I didn't know there was an issue.
all the best,
Dave
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Sure, I'll answer the questions and put an end to any rumors someone is creating.
1. No person has been told by me that they should not post questions in the GRP forum. Can't speak for Richard Jenkins but I doubt he told anyone either.
2. Just looked at the logs. Alex had access from his time as VATUSA1. Andrew never got it. I can't explain why except that when we gave him all of his divisional chief access (access to several other forums as well as moderator access to the United States forum), we missed it. I never got a request to give him access to GRP forum and was unaware he did not have access. If a request was made to another BoG member, I am not aware of it. I honestly don't know who originally gave Andrew his various accesses as VATUSA1 in the forums...we had a lot going on then with turbulence in VATUSA as well as some other issues. Typically forum access is done by Steven Cullen, but sometimes Mike Evans, George P or I cover it. Bottom line is the buck stops with me so it is my fault Andrew didn't have access and my only excuse was I didn't know there was an issue.
all the best,
Dave
Thanks for answering...
Jason Vodnansky
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Sure, I'll answer the questions and put an end to any rumors someone is creating.
1. No person has been told by me that they should not post questions in the GRP forum. Can't speak for Richard Jenkins but I doubt he told anyone either.
all the best,
Dave
<Cough, cough>
Ahem?
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beautiful!
And they wonder why there is no faith left in the leadership!
Jason Vodnansky
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beautiful!
And they wonder why there is no faith left in the leadership!
Jason Vodnansky
Jason, was that really called for?
The rumours have been controlled, per your request, but taking a parting shot at VATUSA in the process isn't really cool, and outright immature.
You have your answer; let's move on and be civil about it.
BL.
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Jason, was that really called for?
The rumours have been controlled, per your request, but taking a parting shot at VATUSA in the process isn't really cool, and outright immature.
You have your answer; let's move on and be civil about it.
BL.
+1
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Hi,
I don't think Jason was taking a shot at VATUSA. I believe he was addressing his comment to Dave Klain and the VATSIM leadership due to the fact that Gary seemed to imply that Dave was wrong in his assumption that no previous VATUSA DD was asked not to post in the GRP discussion forum.
Just a thought.
Cheers!
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Hi,
I don't think Jason was taking a shot at VATUSA. I believe he was addressing his comment to Dave Klain and the VATSIM leadership due to the fact that Gary seemed to imply that Dave was wrong in his assumption that no previous VATUSA DD was asked not to post in the GRP discussion forum.
Just a thought.
Cheers!
That's the real beauty of these forums and part of the reason I get so darn frustrated. Most of you know me and know I make a good faith attempt to answer questions in an upfront manner, explain the rationale behind something and, if I've gooned something, admit it. The response of cough, cough ahem is the antithesis of that. Gary, are you saying I am lying? Saying that I told you not to post? Richard told you not to post? I or Richard told someone else not to post? Not sure what you are trying to say.
I know that you sent me a number of emails with comments/suggestions on GRP, even after you stepped down as VATUSA1. I know that I answered your emails and considered them, but they were not taken as representing VATUSA's official viewpoint but taken as representing your opinion. I also just checked and know you still have access to the GRP review forum. I guess I'm just too dumb to figure it out from the hints, but what I don't know is what you are saying with your post...
Dave
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Dave,
Upfront and honestly submitted as requested:
On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:49:42 -0400, "Gary Millsaps" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi gents,
>
> Would you like for me to continue engaging in the GRP Review forum?
From: Dave Klain [[email protected]]
Date: Wed 5/6/2009 10:41 PM
To: Gary Millsaps
CC: [email protected]
My thought is probably better if you don't...
Dave
Just a simple lapse of memory I'm sure...we were all a bit busy then.
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Gary check your PM Inbox.
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So are we saying a member's opinion doesn't matter now?
Jason Vodnansky
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If this isn't the worst case of twisting facts I have ever seen... Gary resigned as VATUSA1 before the email went to Dave. The GRP forum was intended for staff members. Gary was no longer a staff member, thus should not have remained a member of the forum by virtue of its intent and requirements. This says nothing of Gary's abilities and his excellent suggestions for the GRP, it simply states that he was no longer "qualified" for enrollment in the forum.
It looks like Dave did Gary a favor by letting him continue to have access, but suggested he didn't post since he was no longer staff.
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Pucker Up Buttercup!
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So are we saying a member's opinion doesn't matter now?
Jason Vodnansky
It's great that you have an opinion, but instead of taking shots at VATUSA, how about making your opinion constructive so things can be done to make VATUSA better? Your comment had neither the former, nor the latter. It was rather petty, and quite frankly, uncalled for. You had your answer prior to even making it, so why make it at all?
Either way, you have your answer. Like I said, move on, and let's be civil about things. Comments like that doesn't help anything.
BL.
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The bottom line is this thread serves no purpose for VATUSA. Rumors are never positive. Let's move on to new VATUSA leadership. The past is over and done with. The GRP is in effect. There's nothing more to discuss.
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Gary,
I apologize...clearly we had that exchange and i just don't remember it. My guess (and this is only a guess) is I told you that in the context that you were no longer VATUSA1 and shouldn't be participating in the forum anymore...and that you'd be losing the forum access shortly anyway (which never happened). I would point out that I also didn't "prohibit" it (had I wanted to do that I would have immediately gone in an yanked your access) but rather in response to a request for advice, I replied "probably better if you don't" but to take that approach to the answer to Jason's question at the top of this post would be to engage in the kind of semantics and sea-lawyering that I abhor. Bottom line is:
(a) I dropped the ball in not ensuring GRP access was handled correctly in the case of both you and Andrew.
(b) While I never told anyone who was VATUSA1 to not post in the GRP forum, I clearly told you (former VATUSA1) to not post and my earlier answer to Jason's rumor request was factually incorrect. The answer to question #2 should have been:
"2. VATUSA1 (and other VATUSA staffers) have never been restricted in what they could and could not say or post in the GRP forums. When a former VATUSA1 approached me about posting, I did not prohibit it, but I did recommend he did not. I don't remember the exact details surrounding that but suspect it was so that his posts did not create an impression of undercutting the authority and GRP forum negotiating position of VATUSA (which was now the responsibility of his replacement). If approached by Alex or Andrew today (and the GRP was still under review), I would give the same advice..."
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Thank you Dave...as far as I'm concerned ("twisted facts" notwithstanding), this matter is closed.
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It's great that you have an opinion, but instead of taking shots at VATUSA, how about making your opinion constructive so things can be done to make VATUSA better? Your comment had neither the former, nor the latter. It was rather petty, and quite frankly, uncalled for. You had your answer prior to even making it, so why make it at all?
Either way, you have your answer. Like I said, move on, and let's be civil about things. Comments like that doesn't help anything.
BL.
+10
Thank you Dave...as far as I'm concerned ("twisted facts" notwithstanding), this matter is closed.
+1
I propose a motion to close this thread.
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Second.
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I propose a motion to lobby the IPB Forum Developers to add a projectile vomit smiley........
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If you close the thread people will start complaining about censorship. Just let it die.
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The post will die, no worries, I don't think there's any need to close it. For future cases though, I propose that the next time a post appears that has this same old trap set in it, we choose to ignore it instead of trying to have a relevant discussion about an irrelevant topic.