So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?

Brian Fuller

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Just not sure on the policy on finding an ARTCC that has a comprehensive training program and that actually has instructors available to help.  I've tried this a few times, I join a ARTCC and then find out finding a training instructor takes a very long time, so I'm stuck in the ARTCC and basically lose interest since it seems like they are not available to train.  I completely understand everyone has lives outside of games, as do I. So my basic question is, is it wrong to search and ask for an ARTCC that has instructors available to train?  I'm not really picky on a location, and I'm in the Pacific time zone.

Chris McGee

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 11:01:58 PM »
The more students per instructor, the less time they will have per student. Your best bet for more training would be a smaller ARTCC, however there are drawbacks as well. Most of the ARTCC's with a lower student / instructor ratio have less traffic. This is the reason they have less students.

In a nutshell, ZKC would love to have you  KCartcc.com

Don Desfosse

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 11:50:18 PM »
You are wise to ask, and the ARTCCs are wise to answer truthfully.  All ARTCCs can use an extra controller or 10, but not all have a ton of extra instructional staff.  Christopher's advise was quite good.  Reach out, see what responses you get here, talk to the ATM and/or TA at any facility you are interested in, ask again here; all good strategies.  Thanks for asking a very good question!

Ryan Parry

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 10:18:31 AM »
Brian, another thing you can do is reach out to your ARTCC instructors and mentors via email. Some ARTCC's have structured systems for booking a training session but that doesn't always work for everybody. There is nothing wrong with sending a few emails asking for training, I am sure somebody will try to work out a time for you.

Good luck!

Kris Kendrick

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 01:47:43 PM »
That is excellent advice from Ryan. When I was looking for a new ARTCC home, I did just that, sent some emails out to get a better feel for what is going on at the ARTCCs. I got a nice reply back from the ATM of Memphis at the time and have been here going on five years… and it will take a SWAT team to remove me!

Some ARTCC’s, like ZME, have training programs that contain self-study materials and activities. That is a great way to sharpen your skills in between instructional sessions (which can be tricky to schedule at any ARTCC). I would check with the ATM, DATM or TA about the different elements of their training program. Also find out how many mentors they have in addition to their instructors.

Another word of advice (which is not necessarily something you need to work on, but speaking generally) is to do as much self-study that you can and use the instructors to help you move forward. Too often I have seen students show up like a wet bag of sand and expect to be taught every single detail, then have to be re-taught from square one for the following 5 sessions, then they give up. That is neither productive for the student nor the instructor. Remember, instructors and mentors are volunteering their time and it is all worth it when they see students move up the ranks smoothly.

Between the VATUSA training information, self-guided ARTCC training info, the 71.10, a little Googleing, monitoring ATC (both VATSIM and RW); you could do almost all of the training yourself and only need an instructor to sign you off and make sure you are solid on local procedures.

Not to say that is that is what you should aim for, but it is the other end of the spectrum from the ‘wet bag of sand’. There is somewhere in the middle that works well for students that want to get the most out of this hobby.

Good luck and happy controlling!!

Brandon Barrett

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 02:36:44 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Parry
Brian, another thing you can do is reach out to your ARTCC instructors and mentors via email. Some ARTCC's have structured systems for booking a training session but that doesn't always work for everybody. There is nothing wrong with sending a few emails asking for training, I am sure somebody will try to work out a time for you.

Good luck!

Yea Brain! In fact I encourage all student to "nag" instructors on team speak/VRC etc. This shows that you and all the other controllers that ask for training are just as enthusiastic about the hobby like the instructors. As far as finding an active training dept... Well that's up to you and facility and environment you enjoy working in. I wouldn't want training every week where the ARTCC treats you bad and pays you minimum wage... oh wait...

You might want to try a smaller ARTCC like Chris said!

Chris McGee

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 02:58:31 PM »
Quote from: Brandon Barrett
You might want to try a smaller ARTCC like Chris said!

Back off Barrett  I called it in the air. HAHAHA! A little off topic, but I could not resist.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 02:59:18 PM by Christopher S. McGee »

Brian Fuller

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 03:15:29 PM »
Hi Ryan, thanks for the reply.  So the current problem right now is:
1.  No access to the ZOA forums to ask for help or questions.  So as far as I know I have no way to reach out since I have no information that I can see.
2.  I replied to the initial email I received about training, but no reply as of yet
3.  I have taken and passed 3 of the 4 initial exams.  The last one seems to be a bit challenging on where to find the TRACON and Approach info.  Some of the questions I had to research pretty deep to find an answer and the answer was actually found on a very old VATSIM event post.  I would think one would not have to go through that extensive search just to find a frequency.

Again, if I could get on the ZOA forums, it would be very helpful for new people to ask questions about the training material we're required to pass before we can even begin to start training.


Brian Fuller

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2015, 03:22:00 PM »
For sure Kris, I am in no way a show up to get taught type of person, I take it upon myself to learn all I can before I show up to ask questions, but some of the questions are relating just to the first exams just getting into the ARTCC.  I am a real world pilot, I control on other simulators like ATC4REAL, used to control here back in 06/09, I'm a web programmer as well and love to help out with my available skills to any group that can use it.  Basically I love to immerse and get involved, it make me feel like I actually am part of a group and not just another name/face/voice in the crowd.

Quote from: Kris Kendrick
That is excellent advice from Ryan. When I was looking for a new ARTCC home, I did just that, sent some emails out to get a better feel for what is going on at the ARTCCs. I got a nice reply back from the ATM of Memphis at the time and have been here going on five years… and it will take a SWAT team to remove me!

Some ARTCC’s, like ZME, have training programs that contain self-study materials and activities. That is a great way to sharpen your skills in between instructional sessions (which can be tricky to schedule at any ARTCC). I would check with the ATM, DATM or TA about the different elements of their training program. Also find out how many mentors they have in addition to their instructors.

Another word of advice (which is not necessarily something you need to work on, but speaking generally) is to do as much self-study that you can and use the instructors to help you move forward. Too often I have seen students show up like a wet bag of sand and expect to be taught every single detail, then have to be re-taught from square one for the following 5 sessions, then they give up. That is neither productive for the student nor the instructor. Remember, instructors and mentors are volunteering their time and it is all worth it when they see students move up the ranks smoothly.

Between the VATUSA training information, self-guided ARTCC training info, the 71.10, a little Googleing, monitoring ATC (both VATSIM and RW); you could do almost all of the training yourself and only need an instructor to sign you off and make sure you are solid on local procedures.

Not to say that is that is what you should aim for, but it is the other end of the spectrum from the ‘wet bag of sand’. There is somewhere in the middle that works well for students that want to get the most out of this hobby.

Good luck and happy controlling!!

Don Desfosse

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 04:37:05 PM »
Brian, I have sent a note to the senior staff at ZOA and asked them to reach out to you.

Ryan Parry

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 05:03:09 PM »
Quote from: Brian Fuller
Hi Ryan, thanks for the reply.  So the current problem right now is:
1.  No access to the ZOA forums to ask for help or questions.  So as far as I know I have no way to reach out since I have no information that I can see.
2.  I replied to the initial email I received about training, but no reply as of yet
3.  I have taken and passed 3 of the 4 initial exams.  The last one seems to be a bit challenging on where to find the TRACON and Approach info.  Some of the questions I had to research pretty deep to find an answer and the answer was actually found on a very old VATSIM event post.  I would think one would not have to go through that extensive search just to find a frequency.

Again, if I could get on the ZOA forums, it would be very helpful for new people to ask questions about the training material we're required to pass before we can even begin to start training.


Hi Brian, no problem!

1. I went in and fixed your forum account. I'm not sure how old you were when you joined but your account was stuck on the under age/ needs approval thing. All fixed now!
2. I checked my email and haven't gotten anything from you, however it seems you responded to our DATM's welcome email which he forwarded to me. I'll follow up with you here in just a second, don't worry.
3. TRACON information is all located within one single NCT SOP in our SOP/ LOA's page with the exception of Reno and Fresno which have their own combined "complex" SOP. Every frequency is located within those. If you have any issues finding information contact any member of the staff via the contact page on the website and we'll all be glad to help you find what you are looking for.

I hope this helps and like I said I will send you an email to follow up shortly.

Kris Kendrick

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 05:07:46 PM »
Quote from: Brian Fuller
For sure Kris, I am in no way a show up to get taught type of person, I take it upon myself to learn all I can before I show up to ask questions, but some of the questions are relating just to the first exams just getting into the ARTCC.  I am a real world pilot, I control on other simulators like ATC4REAL, used to control here back in 06/09, I'm a web programmer as well and love to help out with my available skills to any group that can use it.  Basically I love to immerse and get involved, it make me feel like I actually am part of a group and not just another name/face/voice in the crowd.

It sounds like you are getting squared away. Hope you keep at it, with those credentials you may find yourself as a staff member pretty soon!

Brian Fuller

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2015, 09:00:05 PM »
Kinda funny on the age thing, I wish I was 13 lol.. pushing 48

Merik Nanish

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So is it wrong to see what ARTCCs are looking for controllers here?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2015, 09:46:18 PM »
Well that is good Brain. To me it means that unlike the average 13 year-olds you have a lot of what is needed to become a VATSIM controller: patience.

Just because an ARTCC has a lot of free instructors today, it doesn't mean they will also have some two months from now. You gotta be patience to go through this.