VATUSA Forums
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Alejandro Caballero on October 22, 2013, 11:26:29 PM
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Hi guys
My names is Alex and I am the founder of the now retired VATFLY. Few months ago we had to close doors because of a malware planted in our servers now I am re opening doors to a new, stronger, modern ATO in VATSIM. With VATFLY we were stationed at KFLL for all our practice flight and acted as our main airport, with that we brought a great amount of traffic to that airport, programs like Fast Track were we selected an ARTCC an would gather as many pilot as we could to certify them all one day. With this new program I want to make it bigger and stronger but again, I want a brand new start.
Before we would select the ARTCC for our main station, I want to hear ideas of airport you think we should make our main station. Whoever we select from here I want to have a strong partnership, one that can be just good communication or in some forms help out each other (nothing complicated)
This is what we look for in the airport;
Class B or C airspace
A Flight Training area designated by the ARTCC or assigned in real life already.
ARTCC must have an active staff.
Reply with ICAO / ARTCC and directions to the Flight Training area that can be found in charts or explain where is this area going to be if not in charts.
Replies can be done here or to my email at [email protected]
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Hi guys
My names is Alex and I am the founder of the now retired VATFLY. Few months ago we had to close doors because of a malware planted in our servers now I am re opening doors to a new, stronger, modern ATO in VATSIM. With VATFLY we were stationed at KFLL for all our practice flight and acted as our main airport, with that we brought a great amount of traffic to that airport, programs like Fast Track were we selected an ARTCC an would gather as many pilot as we could to certify them all one day. With this new program I want to make it bigger and stronger but again, I want a brand new start.
Before we would select the ARTCC for our main station, I want to hear ideas of airport you think we should make our main station. Whoever we select from here I want to have a strong partnership, one that can be just good communication or in some forms help out each other (nothing complicated)
This is what we look for in the airport;
Class B or C airspace
A Flight Training area designated by the ARTCC or assigned in real life already.
ARTCC must have an active staff.
Reply with ICAO / ARTCC and directions to the Flight Training area that can be found in charts or explain where is this area going to be if not in charts.
Replies can be done here or to my email at [email protected]
Hello Alex,
Congratulations on launching again. ZLA would be more than happy to host your training operations. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you are looking to discuss some specifics.
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Hello Alex,
Training is a delicate process, for both the pilot and the controller. Using bigger airports for training can easily overwhelm the student and discourage him/her from continuing training. You should use smaller airports in smaller ARTCC (i.e Guam). Also, the so called "Flight Training Areas" are actually called Practice areas and can not be found on any chart. Just by this post, I can easily tell that this is your first time at providing flight training. Why don't you gain experience at a proper ATO and then maybe try giving instruction when your a little more knowledgeable. OR be like most kids on here and try to act like you have multiple licenses to teach. Oh wait, you have to be 18 to get a FAA CFI. I guess that might throw a little curve ball in your plans. Something that might also throw a little curve ball in your plan is the mere fact that having no experience in teaching flying to anyone is a huge lost to your cause. Again, gain the experience before you jump off this bridge again.
I also have most of your former instructors and staff. Sorry
Rant over...
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Tell us how you really feel Chris...
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Hello Alex,
Training is a delicate process, for both the pilot and the controller. Using bigger airports for training can easily overwhelm the student and discourage him/her from continuing training. You should use smaller airports in smaller ARTCC (i.e Guam). Also, the so called "Flight Training Areas" are actually called Practice areas and can not be found on any chart. Just by this post, I can easily tell that this is your first time at providing flight training. Why don't you gain experience at a proper ATO and then maybe try giving instruction when your a little more knowledgeable. OR be like most kids on here and try to act like you have multiple licenses to teach. Oh wait, you have to be 18 to get a FAA CFI. I guess that might throw a little curve ball in your plans. Something that might also throw a little curve ball in your plan is the mere fact that having no experience in teaching flying to anyone is a huge lost to your cause. Again, gain the experience before you jump off this bridge again.
I also have most of your former instructors and staff. Sorry
Rant over...
Chris, thank you for your response.
I do appreciate your honesty and straight forward comment. Do allow me to explain and coach you a bit...
I have been doing this for a bit now, this is not my first rodeo, and to add, I am not under aged in any form...
Most importantly... The reason why we pick Class B and C is because is hard to find ATC in smaller airports (yes, I do mean GND, TWR, & APP/DEP), also here is some coaching... Flight Training Areas or Practice Areas are found on charts (look at a sectional chart [a few miles west of KFLL]) I do respect your comment, and your "insult" and do wish you the best in life.
One thing to add. We don't offer any threat to ATOs out there, we will remain unique to our ways and not become a VA at any time.
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Most importantly... The reason why we pick Class B and C is because is hard to find ATC in smaller airports (yes, I do mean GND, TWR, & APP/DEP)...(look at a sectional chart [a few miles west of KFLL])
Well Alex, you could always come back to the South Florida region. I know we enjoyed having the VATFLY group around and did appreciate their dedication to trying to systematically learn the ropes.
All the best as you look to relaunch the organization.
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Hello Alex,
Congratulations on launching again. ZLA would be more than happy to host your training operations. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you are looking to discuss some specifics.
I sure will.
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Well Alex, you could always come back to the South Florida region. I know we enjoyed having the VATFLY group around and did appreciate their dedication to trying to systematically learn the ropes.
All the best as you look to relaunch the organization.
That's an option. I love flying in Florida so FLL is an option.
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Alex I would like to extend an offer for the Seattle (KSEA)/ Portland (KPDX) area also. We have been really focusing our new controllers on VFR flying and I think that we have some great VFR airspace around here with Seattle area having also Renton (KRNT), Boeing Field (KBFI) and a few other in the Class Bravo. And with KPDX you have Vancover (Pearson Field), Troutdale, and Hillboro in the area. So lots of options.
But also not just Alex group, but I would like to extend my hand out to any ATO. Just send an email to [email protected] and we will make sure to have people there.
See ya on the scopes.
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Alright Brandon
Alex,
I have over 5 years experience in training for flight schools. If you look at AIM 3-4-6 (http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0304.html#aim0304.html.2). The airspace is just west of KFLL is an Alert Area.
Again, training is very difficult from the virtual aspect for pilots. When your in the left seat of a real airplane, you have control from the situation. With the virtual side, you have other factors that have to be achieve in order to get the exact conditions and movements you want the student to learn. Like the flare. Another difficult subject for example is energy management. The lowest landing rates is not a win for virtual aviation. In fact, this may result in approach-and-landing accidents, such as: loss of control, landing short, hard landing, tail strike, runway excursion; and/or, runway overrun. Which is what we see in VATSIM and VAs daily.
Also, (no offense to ZMA and ZJX) but when it's sunny and 75 with light winds for over 300 days a year in Florida, then yes it's easy and fun. Try different parts of the USA for the experience.
As a side note, if something doesn't work the first time, don't try it again. Basic business principles.
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Alright Brandon
Alex,
I have over 5 years experience in training for flight schools. If you look at AIM 3-4-6 (http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0304.html#aim0304.html.2). The airspace is just west of KFLL is an Alert Area.
Again, training is very difficult from the virtual aspect for pilots. When your in the left seat of a real airplane, you have control from the situation. With the virtual side, you have other factors that have to be achieve in order to get the exact conditions and movements you want the student to learn. Like the flare. Another difficult subject for example is energy management. The lowest landing rates is not a win for virtual aviation. In fact, this may result in approach-and-landing accidents, such as: loss of control, landing short, hard landing, tail strike, runway excursion; and/or, runway overrun. Which is what we see in VATSIM and VAs daily.
Also, (no offense to ZMA and ZJX) but when it's sunny and 75 with light winds for over 300 days a year in Florida, then yes it's easy and fun. Try different parts of the USA for the experience.
As a side note, if something doesn't work the first time, don't try it again. Basic business principles.
Thank you for the advices.
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Alex I would like to extend an offer for the Seattle (KSEA)/ Portland (KPDX) area also. We have been really focusing our new controllers on VFR flying and I think that we have some great VFR airspace around here with Seattle area having also Renton (KRNT), Boeing Field (KBFI) and a few other in the Class Bravo. And with KPDX you have Vancover (Pearson Field), Troutdale, and Hillboro in the area. So lots of options.
But also not just Alex group, but I would like to extend my hand out to any ATO. Just send an email to [email protected] and we will make sure to have people there.
See ya on the scopes.
We will be in contact, thank you.
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Also, (no offense to ZMA and ZJX) but when it's sunny and 75 with light winds for over 300 days a year in Florida, then yes it's easy and fun. Try different parts of the USA for the experience.
Chris, no offense, but the above statements are a gross and total misrepresentation of the weather systems encountered within the State of Florida. Even just within ZMA, the former site VATFLY utilized, KFLL, is a routine site for weather system development off of the Florida Everglades resulting with wind gusts of 60+mph to occur on a daily basis with severe thunderstorm warnings routine for over 1/2 the year. This of course doesn't even account for tropical systems, fronts and more. The simple number of CWAs and SIGMETs we encounter the majority of the year is breathtaking. Never mind the northern parts of the state is already preparing for the time of year we feature dramatic temperature shifts (for example, lows in the 20s followed by a high of 88). Actually already started. Makes it interesting for those 1/4 mile visibility encounters on the Gulf Coast.
Obviously the State of Florida Tourism Office is doing a much better job than I realized getting people to visit our state! However, I did want to ensure there were no false impressions about the diversity of experiences pilots encounter visiting the two Florida ARTCCs.
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Chris, no offense, but the above statements are a gross and total misrepresentation of the weather systems encountered within the State of Florida. Even just within ZMA, the former site VATFLY utilized, KFLL, is a routine site for weather system development off of the Florida Everglades resulting with wind gusts of 60+mph to occur on a daily basis with severe thunderstorm warnings routine for over 1/2 the year. This of course doesn't even account for tropical systems, fronts and more. The simple number of CWAs and SIGMETs we encounter the majority of the year is breathtaking. Never mind the northern parts of the state is already preparing for the time of year we feature dramatic temperature shifts (for example, lows in the 20s followed by a high of 88). Actually already started. Makes it interesting for those 1/4 mile visibility encounters on the Gulf Coast.
Obviously the State of Florida Tourism Office is doing a much better job than I realized getting people to visit our state! However, I did want to ensure there were no false impressions about the diversity of experiences pilots encounter visiting the two Florida ARTCCs.
You forgot to mention the fact that it rains everyday at 1600 local
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You forgot to mention the fact that it rains everyday at 1600 local
Heavy yes, but not for long though
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Folks, before this devolves any further.... We are on the same team, working toward the same goal -- have fun enjoying a hobby that helps others have fun enjoying our hobby.
I think we can all agree that, as a simulation, we are attempting to simulate the real world as much as practical, given boundaries and limitations of our network, traffic, volunteer nature, etc. I think we can all agree that emulating a reasonable amount of realism, while giving reasonable flexibility and allowances for the various VATSIMisms, is a good and smart thing to do. Yes, it's gray. Yes, it's squishy. Yes, it's a matter of interpretation, and your mileage may vary based on the leadership/culture in place at each ARTCC. But the key is to attempt to emulate the real world, within reason, and yet keep it fun and inviting for people to want to participate. It's like walking on a razor blade, and the line is blurry.
That said, let's do the best we can to work TOGETHER to be reasonable, respectful and have fun.
In that spirit...
Alex asked for ideas so here goes:
I've been going through the ZLA tests and that's exactly what I'd want to see. I'd like to have the criteria posted for each rating so I can practice offline, then engage an instructor for a practical test and signoff when complete. The ZLA tests are perfect (in mind opinion) and easy to understand.
As far as a "side by side" type of option, I don't see the value in that. If you're the kind of person that wants to get a rating, odds are you already know the basics of flying online. The current VATSIM pilot ratings are listed with criteria so it seems like the first part is fine. I guess what I'd have to ask for is a "step by step" like is done for controller ratings.
Ratings should be taught in standard FSX/X-Plane aircraft, like P1 in the C172. Airliner ops need different pilot ratings because the "rules" are different. The C172 can teach everyone the basics of aviate, navigate, communicate at a pace easy for new users. Old-timers will breeze through the simple stuff and move straight to commercial ratings quickly.
Finally, ratings only mean something if there's a stick with the carrot. It's not like anyone would be prevented from flying on VATSIM if they don't have the rating(s) so it's just bragging rights. VATSIM policy would have to change in order to motivate people to get the cert in the first place. If the rating is used to exclue/include pilots from VAs then it seems like it's a different training entirely.
Hope this all made sense.
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I see you have a great deal of choices throughout the VATUSA devision and I admire what you are trying to do and what you have done previously.
I would like to put my ARTCC out there for a choice as well. ZLC. More specifically the SLC TRACON (http://skyvector.com/?ll=40.788497120465955,-111.97769995651554&chart=154&zoom=7&plan=A.K2.KPVU:A.K2.U42:A.K2.KSLC:A.K2.KOGD:A.K2.KTVY:A.K2.KPVU)
As seen in the SkyVector link above, a course of flight that will introduce the following:
__A very large and stacked Class B airspace right in the middle of the TRACON.
__No Class C within the TRACON but take a trip up to KBOI and you get what you want there. (Still within the ARTCC). Two class D airports can be found in the SLC TRACON: KPVU and KOGD. There is also, merging with KOGD, a air force base class D KHIF.
__Both Large and small VFR corridors between the Class B and D airspaces.
__VFR transitions through the class B
__Restricted airspace
__Controlled and uncontrolled fields
__Terrain obstructions
__Cannot see it on a chart but ZLC ARTCC's SLC TRACON has more to offer such as a wide range of weather throughout the year and a FRIENDLY/active CAB and RADAR controller roster
A simple email to the staff concerning scheduled training dates and times could set up an opportunity for both your pilots and our controllers to improve the chances of attendance.
Regardless of your decision, I wish you the best of luck!