"SWA1321 With you@FL330"

[Roger Curtiss]

How many times, especially as a CTR controller and even more so during a large event such as FNO, have you received such a message from a pop-up target?

I worked FNO last week in an H_CTR position and it was a real problem.  I am guessing it occurs with some regularity at every major event and it may be a matter of inadequate pilot knowledge.

I honestly do not know if: a) this is as big a problem as I believe it to be or b)if there is an easy way to remedy it
but I offer the following as a suggestion-

Perhaps it would be feasible to include with the event posting a line in the description reminding pilots that handoffs require checking in only with callsign and altitude but that first transmissions when airborne to a controller at other times necessitate callsign, altitude AND position.

[Daniel Hawton]

It's been like that since I started training on VATSIM in about 2009... at least on the US side of the pond.  About 20% of the time, pilots do not report their altitude either just a "XYZ Center, ABC123 with you."

On the flip side, about 15% of the time, real world, pilots don't check in with me on Departure with an altitude, either.  And I'd say about 10-20% checking in the first time don't report position (when not handed off) and/or altitude.

[Ryan Parry]

I really don't see it as being an issue to be honest. The only time I have an issue with people not saying their location is when they are requesting clearance and I am working a hand full of airports at once. Even then, a simple "say location" or "where are you at" solves the problem in less than 30 seconds.

If they are airborne, VRC makes is extremely easy to find an aircraft. I realize the procedure is different in the real world, but aircraft also aren't coming from "unicom" at FL330 either. 

[Johnathan Ellis]

I don't really see it as an issue either. Regardless of where they are, we need to issue a code etc. So all I do is type the callsign, A Select, F9 A Select, and go from there

[Rick Rump]

Its okay, when I give my position I rarely ever get radar contacted off of it. Sure I will take a new code before you say "radar contact as reported" (or whatever along those lines you choose to use).
I hate "with you", how about "Good evening XYZ Center, CALLSIGN, FL330"?
Though lately I have been hearing more and more of people giving positions when already being tracked.

[Don Desfosse]

Interesting --- a similar thread going on in the VATSIM forums. 

I hate "with you", how about "Good evening XYZ Center, CALLSIGN, FL330"?

Sometimes lately, when the evil streak is present, I have been using a page out of Keith Smith's playbook, and replying "And also with you" (old time Catholics should "get" that... )

But, more appropriately, the initial contact call should sound more like, "XYZ Center, (Good morning/afternoon/evening/day,) CALLSIGN, POSITION, FLXXX"

From my post on VATSIM a couple of minutes ago:

In "the US Book" (AIM in this case, ref. AIM 5-3-1b(2)) that:
- When coming from a radar environment, initial contact should include altitude information (ref. AIM 5-3-1b(2)(a)), and
- When coming from a nonradar environment (which is certainly the case if coming from uncontrolled airspace), initial contact should include BOTH position and altitude information (ref. AIM 5-3-1b(2)(b))

The only time I have an issue with people not saying their location is when they are requesting clearance and I am working a hand full of airports at once. Even then, a simple "say location" or "where are you at" solves the problem in less than 30 seconds.

When the same evil streak was present, I used to sometimes say, "CALLSIGN, XXX Center, I control 165,000 square miles of airspace that contains 283 airports.  Which one of those are you at?"   

Luckily as I get older and wiser and mellower, that mean streak comes out less and less.... 

You are right, it's not a big deal, but it is nice when it's done right, both from the pilot and controller side.  I know I appreciate accuracy, when I'm operating on either side of the scope.

[Roger Curtiss]

Granted, this is not a problem most of the time-which is why it never prompted me to comment on it before, however, I was mainly referring to large events...it most definitely was a problem briefly for me last Friday as I was trying to make things orderly and I thought this sort of challenge might be prevalent.

[Don Desfosse]

Good point.  I had forgotten back to the OP where there was an event in play.  Of course, ARTCCs should be working with their neighbors to ensure staffing when there are events.  But I also know that doesn't always happen.  So it should indeed be a formal part of pilot training to ensure proper procedures.  I remember working a CTP a few years ago with my adjacent ARTCC unstaffed, and remember getting on average one pilot checking in every 10 seconds or so for at least a few hours coming from an uncontrolled environment.  When they reported correctly, it went much smoother.  Not so much for the other 90%.... [shudder!]

[Roger Curtiss]

I have posted a topic in Pilot Talk about this issue and I will be taking it up with the PTD as some good suggestions have been presented to try to reduce if not eliminate this communication area.

[Josh Glottmann]

If I can also add, when you are on the ground, you most certainly want to give the airport you are at, with sufficient detail as well.
I too often here simply, "Miami Center, ABC123, good night". Once I told a pilot "say location" -- response: "ramp" 
Providing no further information requires the controller to go back and have to figure out what you want, where you are, etc.

Initial call should more or less be: "XXX CTR, ABC123, at AIRPORT (additionally position on airport), (INFO _, WITH WEATHER, etc.), REQUEST"
That lets the controller know who you are, where you are, what you want, and what you already know... which ultimately means they can potentially get a clearance for you sooner and free up the frequency for other transmissions.