I am stuck attempting to locate and download the sector file for ZAU.  I have searched and poked around the websites of both vatusa.net and zauartcc.org, but I've been unable to find it on either site. Perhaps I missed something obvious.

Advice?

If it matters, I am attempting to use the VRC client software to connect as an observer in the ZAU sector.  (I am near KCMI in real life, and would like to observe KORD as a starting point to learn about VATSIM).

Luckily they've just made it publicly accessible for the upcoming VatVenture event:

Sector/POF File and Euroscope File

1. BOG would not speak "freely"

Why?

I can't say too much due to the confidentiality of BOG discussions (separate from the BOG Meetings).  In sum, there were two areas of concern raised:

I thought only the EC portion was confidential, maybe this is why you truly don't want to do a recording?

1. A concern that BOG members would not be as comfortable speaking their minds plainly if a recording would be released.  The thought was the minutes accurately document what was said in context but a raw recording would stifle open discussion in a way minutes do not.

So what you're basically saying is that even though it's supposedly an "open" meeting, you guys still don't want us to hear the discussion? How do I or the next guy know that the BoG meetings are 100% accurate? Maybe something could have been "accidentally" forgot about or revised. There is no way for us to ensure that the meetings document is correct. Are you guys saying things in the meeting that may go against CoC or CoR, is that why you're afraid to share your "plainly spoken minds?"

2. A concern about privacy laws (which vary from country to country and we have BOG members from five different countries at present) with regards to recordings of meetings.  I am not a lawyer, let alone an expert, on international privacy laws, but since becoming President of VATSIM I've continued to learn more and more about the VERY restrictive laws in other parts of the world (Europe for example) that make illegal things we do all the time in the US.

This is a legitimate concern, however, if all parties agree to it, what kind of law could have been broken? As you, I am no expert but that seems like common sense to me.


If you were willing to try out a recording, but due to legal reasons, etc. Would it be a possibility to open the TS room to members with no rights. (No speaking, no private messaging, no nothing except listening)? Then when EC session rolls around move to a password protected room or something? It seems the minutes allow very little transparency, IMHO.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Dave. I (and am sure others) are appreciative that you'll be willing to produce more detailed minutes. But it seems like not allowing the recording idea to move forward seems a step back in transparency. I remember a quote from you, not exactly, stating that you try your best to be as transparent as possible. But the first concern seems like an excuse rather than a legitimate one like number 2.

Nope it hasn't finished... it simply has changed to further hammer the pipe (Bryan), it seems like no matter what Bryan does Jason finds a new hammer to use on the pipe?

http://forum.vatusa.us/index.php?showtopic=1856&hl=

While it may not exactly be the most publicly pleasing way to go about it, Jason absolutely knows what he's talking about. He is the third member to join VATSIM and has held various staff positions before, he's been on VATSIM longer than anybody else on these forums. JV brings up really good points, and obviously the way he brings them up worked for 05-05, so why stop when more needs to be accomplished?

As explored in several other forums ad threads, this is pretty much out of our (VATSIM's) hands.The pilot clients are the product of individual freelance efforts. They are neither spoonsored by nor controlled by VATSIM. The methodology by which any client connects to VATSIM is a controlled and negotiated product.

This is a topic that's been debated about to great lengths in to VATSIM Pilot forums. I would love to share my thoughts, but this is not the place.

As noted, in the works and will be available at some point in the future.

I am very glad to hear we are making progress on the pilot ratings, it's a great step in the right direction for VATSIM.

What could be simpler than the existing CID & Password system? In the case of both pilot and controller signup, one only has to go to the application screen and fill in a few blanks, wait for an email and voila!...logon.

Might be a misunderstanding, but I didn't mean sign up, but rather sign in. A lot of people I talk to, forum posts I read, indicate that a lot of new members are very intimidated by the whole process of actually signing in to the network and making that first bit of communication with ATC. I have no idea how to fix that, maybe it's not even a VATSIM problem.

We have trouble mustering and maintaining manning levels to provide nowhere close to 1-on-1 training for the 5-15% of population that makes up the controller force on VATSIM...where would the individuals needed to provide such support to the other 90% or so (pilots) come from?

Very good point, and a point well taken. Since controllers have much higher standards to conform with than pilots, one could infer that mentors and instructors fall under the same boat. While it may not be entirely possible or feasible, in a perfect world we could have a group of 100 or so experienced pilots just helping out fellow hobbyists. There should be no need to fill them to the gills with tests, or even a single test. That would be one of the best and easiest ways to give back to this great hobby.

Good sentiment but I believe if one looked at their system close enough one would find many of the same problems VATSIM experiences. This is aside from the fact that the fundamental approaches to the hobby are different between the two networks.

Regardless of similar problems or different fundamental approaches, there have got to be certain aspects of IVAO that perform more efficiently or work better than aspects of VATSIM and vice versa.

Also, no offense taken at all. Discussions and debates are meant to be just that. Not meant to be filled with disclaimers and apologies.  

-Nick

I must be confused... We're all here bickering and going back and forth in this thread, but nothing is being done. Instead of spending a week in one of these threads that appear every two weeks, maybe the upper echelons should spend their valuable time positively contributing to our hobby and doing something to improve their [our] weaknesses.

"Are there communications break-downs? Absolutely. Are there policies that could be better? Sure. Are there processes that sometimes just don't work for the ATMs and staff, yes."

So let's fix it!

I believe I've made at least a minute impact on VATSIM, at least in ZAU a bit. I get on and instruct and help out our students whenever I have free time to devote to our hobby. I try my best not to spend my time in forums getting into arguments, etc. I like to be on and working with our students helping them to be as best as they can. I don't think they'd appreciate it much if I sat here and typed out 45 minutes worth of sewage when I could be helping them or someone else.

So I guess the moral of my story is let's stop sitting around and actually do something to fix the obvious problem(s).


-Nick

Dave, these "Executive Sessions" I see in the minutes, are they when those sort of things are discussed? If so, is it possible to hold said "ES" in a different room or stopping and starting recording after that is finished and splicing the two files together? It certainly wouldn't be hard too hard to do. And if it takes more time than creating these minutes documents, please say so. It just seems to me a recording would be easier for everyone to understand and that way you hear everything the way it's said, not a short recap in a 3 page document on a 2 and a half hour meeting.

-Nick

While I and most agree we need stability above and below for the middleman (VATUSA) to be stable, I think people have to realize this before they take the job. I've been at VATSIM for just over a half year and seen 3 different VATUSA1's. That is pretty bad. Whomever applies for VATUSA1 next needs to realize that there is not 100% perfection above. So maybe it's time to try and make a difference beyond one's division and give it a shot. When one meets resistance, don't quit, keep trying. It will work out [hopefully].