VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)

Scott DeWoody

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VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« on: July 02, 2022, 07:30:05 AM »
VATUSA's sponsored "Fly American" FNO last night was for the most part (75%) a success with the exception of one of the featured airports (departure) KMIA which was not staffed at all, no GND, TWR, APP, or CTR.  There were over 35 departures out of KMIA with no controllers in site.  We at joinava dot org did our best to promote this event, reaching out to other VA's to join, and they did only to log on at KMIA to no ATC.  It was very disappointing and frankly unacceptable.  The other ARTCC's involved (Jacksonville, and DC) did an outstanding job sequencing the aircraft into Philly, and other airports in the area.  ZMA did staff up after more than half of the aircraft had already departed and into ZJX airspace.  IMHO, this was a management issue and should be addressed.  :o :(

Scott DeWoody

Nolan Danziger

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2022, 02:06:11 PM »
I take it this is your way of offering to pay a salary to ensure that controllers are available?
Zoomer 😎

Daniel Everman

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2022, 02:08:12 PM »
If it was a "management issue and should be addressed" why did you take to this (public) forum instead of sending an email to division/ZMA brass?
Daniel Everman
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Shane O'Neill

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2022, 03:35:24 PM »
JoinAvA was originally planning to have a group flight from PHX to PHL for this Open Mic Night. Everyone was informed and staffing was secured at ZAB. Then, on June 17, JoinAvA requested to change the group flight to be MIA to PHL. I asked ZMA and they said they would not be able to guarantee service for the event. I then informed JoinAvA, and asked if they would like to change the departure airport, but they did not. They knew staffing at MIA would likely not be available, yet they chose to fly it anyway.

I am happy to discuss this further via email. We look forward to working with JoinAvA for future events.
Shane O'Neill
VATUSA Events Manager
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Jacob Boyles

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2022, 03:47:21 PM »
Quote
It was very disappointing and frankly unacceptable.
Wow so unacceptable that people decided to not spend their Friday evening controlling fake planes.
I am so confused why people get burnt out by this, totally not people who act like this, not at all.
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Evan Bradley

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2022, 03:52:39 PM »
Everyone was informed and staffing was secured at ZAB.

ZAB was staffed and ready to accommodate, even after the change happened.

Maybe PHX was the better option if you wanted coverage. Not like you could change your origin airport at all. Once you select it days or weeks in advance, it's set in stone and locked in forever.
Evan Bradley
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Daniel Everman

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2022, 04:16:02 PM »
Quote
It was very disappointing and frankly unacceptable.
Wow so unacceptable that people decided to not spend their Friday evening controlling fake planes.
I am so confused why people get burnt out by this, totally not people who act like this, not at all.

Friday evening on a holiday weekend*
Daniel Everman
ZMP FE #retired | Grill Enthusiast

Scott DeWoody

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2022, 06:40:39 PM »
If it was a "management issue and should be addressed" why did you take to this (public) forum instead of sending an email to division/ZMA brass?

To be honest, I did the post here to draw attention to this fact because in the past sending feedback to zma have fallen on deaf ears, or blind eyes.  They were there and available, they knew about it and chose not to staff up.  I know this to be true, because I know people that control in Miami.
Scott DeWoody

Jacob Boyles

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2022, 07:14:36 PM »
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To be honest, I did the post here to draw attention to this fact because in the past sending feedback to zma have fallen on deaf ears, or blind eyes.  They were there and available, they knew about it and chose not to staff up.  I know this to be true, because I know people that control in Miami.

And that is perfectly fine. If you believe that people are obligated to staff up for you I'm not sure how to tell you this but you just aren't as important as you think you are.
VATSIM Assistant to the VP of Technical Development
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Scott DeWoody

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2022, 07:29:25 PM »
Quote
To be honest, I did the post here to draw attention to this fact because in the past sending feedback to zma have fallen on deaf ears, or blind eyes.  They were there and available, they knew about it and chose not to staff up.  I know this to be true, because I know people that control in Miami.

And that is perfectly fine. If you believe that people are obligated to staff up for you I'm not sure how to tell you this but you just aren't as important as you think you are.

I don't see anywhere in any of my posts that implies that I believe people are obligated to staff up for "me".  And it was more than just me, there were other American pilots from other VA's, and The Pilot Club.  I would think a VATSIM Staff member would respond more professionally.  I also stated in the OP that MIA did staff up, late, and I praised the other ARTCCs.
Scott DeWoody

Jacob Boyles

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2022, 07:48:15 PM »
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They were there and available, they knew about it and chose not to staff up.

This sounds like insinutating that just because the members were 'available' then they should staff up, which is a very easy way to not get service.

Either way, as Shane said this situation was apparently communicated beforehand, yet was ignored.

Quote
I asked ZMA and they said they would not be able to guarantee service for the event. I then informed JoinAvA, and asked if they would like to change the departure airport, but they did not.
VATSIM Assistant to the VP of Technical Development
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Daniel Everman

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2022, 10:55:33 PM »
To be honest, I did the post here to draw attention to this fact because in the past sending feedback to zma have fallen on deaf ears, or blind eyes.  They were there and available, they knew about it and chose not to staff up.  I know this to be true, because I know people that control in Miami.

So...you posted in a forum browsed mainly by division controllers/staff for all to see about how a facility didn't staff up for you on a holiday weekend, and expected what outcome? To be honest, I don't think this course of action will paint your or your VA in a positive light and encourage people to staff up for you in the future.
Daniel Everman
ZMP FE #retired | Grill Enthusiast

Clay Brock

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2022, 02:13:01 PM »
You were notified that staffing wouldn't be guaranteed at MIA because the departure airport changed less than 2 weeks from the event date. Yet here you are, complaining about MIA staffing up later, even though they told you it would be unlikely to begin with. Not a good look man...

If you really think ZMA is out to get you, then just go somewhere else! Imagine that you wanted to buy groceries from a food bank, but they were closed that day due to a lack of volunteers. You could either:
A). Go on another day, or
B). Go to a different location that was open

What you shouldn't do is complain in a open forum about volunteers showing up when they told you it was unlikely anyways. This post is just going to deter more facilities from staffing up for your events because they know you will trash them in public.
Clay Brock (CB) - 1299667
Training Administrator
ZFW ARTCC
ACE Team

Shane VanHoven

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2022, 03:13:15 PM »
Well one things for sure. Next time I see a request from Scott to staff up, I’m not making an effort the be there.   ;)
Shane VanHoven
Minneapolis ARTCC
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FAA Air Traffic Control, ORD ATCT

Scott DeWoody

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Re: VATUSA sponsored event (1 JUL 22)
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2022, 11:59:24 AM »
Quote
They were there and available, they knew about it and chose not to staff up.

This sounds like insinutating that just because the members were 'available' then they should staff up, which is a very easy way to not get service.

Either way, as Shane said this situation was apparently communicated beforehand, yet was ignored.

Quote
I asked ZMA and they said they would not be able to guarantee service for the event. I then informed JoinAvA, and asked if they would like to change the departure airport, but they did not.

The situation was NOT ignored, it was communicated that PHX-PHL would have been too long of a flight for most, therefore, we listed MIA as an origin.  And to all that are "bashing" me on this, this was NOT, I repeat NOT, a joinava event, it was a VATSUA event.
Scott DeWoody