ZLA Pilot Training

[Scott DeWoody]

Just out of curiosity, what knowledge should a ZLA I7 certified pilot have?

I am in no way, shape or form, knocking the training you guys in LA do, as a matter of fact, I applaud your efforts, this is a real curiosity question.

[Andrew Doubleday]

Just out of curiosity, what knowledge should a ZLA I7 certified pilot have?

I am in no way, shape or form, knocking the training you guys in LA do, as a matter of fact, I applaud your efforts, this is a real curiosity question.

An I7 rated pilot should be familiar with basic VFR flight (patterns, class B clearances, traffic pattern entry, pilotage, etc), and some IFR flight including flying a departure procedure/STAR, a TEC route, an ILS approach (vectors and full procedure), a full procedure VOR approach, and operations into an uncontrolled field.

[Scott DeWoody]

Thanks Andrew for the reply!

[Keith Smith]

Scott,

I know this is a teensy bit late, but in case it helps, my experience has been that the majority of pilots who go through the process do take the time to learn the material and let it sink in.

There are others, however, who blast through it as quickly as possible, basically just hanging on for dear life.  They scrape through many of the ratings, but actually learn very little from it.

They come out of it knowing about as much as they knew coming in to the program.

In other words, it IS possible to pass the ratings (because of the detailed reference articles that tell you exactly what to do) without really knowing what you're doing.  Every now and then you'll see a pilot with "ZLA I-x" in their remarks and think to yourself, "wtf are they teaching over there?"

I've seen it happen before...it is an imperfect system.  (I can say that, I built it)

[Scott DeWoody]

Scott,

 "wtf are they teaching over there?"

I've seen it happen before...it is an imperfect system.  (I can say that, I built it)

Keith, you read my mind...kind of.  I was referring to a pilot who had the ZLA I7 in his remarks, but was departing  KMIA on runway 27, when the winds clearly called for east ops (080@12, if I remember correctly)

So, I was just wondering.   Thanks  

[Bryan Wollenberg]

I was referring to a pilot who had the ZLA I7 in his remarks, but was departing  KMIA on runway 27, when the winds clearly called for east ops (080@12, if I remember correctly)

Clearly calls for East Ops?  How could that clearly call for east ops?  That's completely up to the pilot, operating limitations of the aircraft, runway length, runway condition, operating limitations of the company, etc.  when no tower is available.  12kts is within the max. tailwind components for tons of aircraft, and most of the other limitations simply don't apply to VATSIM.

[Scott DeWoody]

Opppps, I forgot to add that there were at least 5 or 6 aircraft either coming into of flying out of KMIA at the time, all announcing intentions over unicomm, all observing East Operations.  Sorry, my bad, also sure there was no ATC on at the time, however, if there had been, Miami would have "clearly" been in east ops.

[Keith Smith]

Scott, gotcha.  "Runway selection at a non-towered field" is not something that is part of our program.  We do cover IFR ops in/out of non-towered fields, but that's that extent of the non-towered ops.

[Martin Harriman]

For what it's worth, although it's usually better to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing, even with control in the cab you can ask for whatever you want. You are supposed to ask, in fact (AIM 4-3-6). The other night, KOAK (the real one, not the VATSIM one) had one arrival on the 11 even though they really were in west (normal) ops, departing and landing on the 29. No problem. Tower & ground got the 11 arrival to the ramp without it going nose to nose with the 29 departures.

At uncontrolled airports, although again you're much better going with the flow (that's why the traffic pattern was invented), there's nothing that I've ever seen in part 91 that says you HAVE to do so. Part 91 says you have to make left turns in the pattern unless there are clear indications that right turns are required, but it doesn't say you have to land into the wind. Or take off into the wind, for that matter. I saw an ASRP report the other day of two aircraft that tried to take off in opposite directions on the same runway at the same time. There was a little rise in the middle of the runway, so neither pilot could see the other or hear the other's CTAF broadcast. Oops. Fortunately it was a near-miss, not an actual collision.

Just thought I'd point it out, and encourage everyone to not get upset with pilots who go against the flow. It might be easier and safer (well, in our case, virtually safer) to go the "right" way, but it's not worth getting upset about if they don't.

[Wesley Miles]

+1 Martin

I deal with this all the time real world, albeit at a smaller regional airport where opposite direction operations don't have as much of an impact.  But it's true, pilots tend to want the easiest/fastest route and many times, it's not the runway in use.  We either approve it if we can or it gets denied.  But, especially where there's no ATC involved, I would agree it's the pilot's prerogative, and not necessarily something anyone should have a say in (except ATC, if online)... even if it is an inconvenience.

[Mark Hubbert]

Some very good comments.  I applaud ZLA for their program.  I think it is important for any ARTCC to have a customer service mentality.  New Pilots typically appreciate any help they can get.  Recently I was flying and a pilot asked about LAX OPS.  I explained in text that during the day regardless of the wind, that LAX typcially departs on the 24's and 25's as well as arrives and then after midnight switches over for noise abatement purposes.  Another pilot wanted to argue and I found some document after googling that showed that I was correct.  Regardless maybe the various ARTCC's should consider making a document available that outlines their operations.  I know that some already do; I further realize that many pilots would choose not to use these guidelines but so long as the effort is made, then at least an ARTCC can say that they went the extra mile towards good customer service.

[Tim Farrell]

Recently, I was flying with a group of pilots into a major airport that was uncontrolled at the time. What happens way to often is, even when myself or another pilot has announced intentions for arrival and landing, some one always screws up the plan by not announcing and or landing against traffic that has clearly made intensions over unicom before the errant pilot has.

The basic rule of thumb I use when no controller is on, is to use calm wind preferred runways whenever possible under calm wind conditions unless someone has announced intentions otherwise, then I will follow traffic flow. Common sense is all it takes. Some pilots will always find a short cut no matter what, even if it goes against the grain of others. But that's what you get from a game environment.

A good pilot will know the destination airport and its operations long before he arrives. Many times I've seen pilots land on the wrong parallel runway merely because they had no clue as to the airport layout because they didn't do their home work before taking off. A successful flight starts with the good pre-flight briefing.