VATUSA Forums
General => Events => Topic started by: Meg Bruck on May 05, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
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(http://www.atlantacenter.net/index.php/download_file/view_inline/444)
The Atlanta Center Presents:
a VATUSA Friday Night Operations Event
Charlotte LIVE!
Friday, June 9, 2300z-0300z (7:00pm-11:00pm EDT)
Live! events have been a long running tradition in the The Atlanta Center ARTCC and for those who know what its like, its a blast! We call it a Live event, not because our controllers are meeting up, in person, for a "live" controlling event, but because we are simulating how live we can make the airspace!
For the second summer in a row, Charlotte will be staffed up from Clearance to Center by the always professional and friendly Atlanta Center Controllers from 2300 to at least 0300 zulu, Friday June 9th.
A PILOT BRIEFING WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE SOON. PLEASE CHECK BACK SOON.
PREFERRED ROUTES UPDATED
CLT -> ATL BOBZY2 TNSLY LEAVI WINNG1
ATL -> CLT PHIIL2 PHIIL CNTLR JONZE1 KCLT
CLT -> BHM ESTRR2 IPTAY CHOPZ ATL VUZ
BHM -> CLT BHM6 BESTT JONZE1
CLT -> BOS BARMY2 RDU THHMP MAAXY OOD J42 RBV J222 JFK ROBUC2
BOS -> CLT PATSS4 PATSS NELIE CMK J75 GVE LYH CHSLY2 KCLT
CLT -> DCA KILNS2 AUDII WAVES CAPSS2
DCA -> CLT SCRAM3 LYH CHSLY2 KCLT
CLT -> DTW HUGO ROBAY BKW GEMNI4
DTW -> CLT ROD FLM TAFTT PARQR2 KCLT
CLT -> IAD KILNS2 AUDII DORRN CAVLR3
IAD -> CLT SCRAM3 LYH CHSLY2
CLT -> JFK BARMY2 TYI ORF J121 SIE CAMRN4
JFK -> CLT RBV J230 J75 GVE LYH MAJIC1
CLT -> LGA BARMY2 RDU J55 HPW J191 PXT KORRY3
LGA -> CLT BIGGY J75 GVE LYH MAJIC1
CLT -> MCO ICONS2 BLDWN SAV J103 OMN CWRLD4
MCO -> CLT MCCOY SAV STOCR1
CLT -> MIA ICONS2 BLDWN SAV J103 OMN HILEY6
MIA -> CLT HEDLY2 HEDLY J53 CRG J51 SAV STOCR1
CLT -> ORD JOJJO2 DOOGE Q63 HEVAN MZZ VEECK3
ORD -> CLT EARND ELANR EMMLY ERECO IIU SKYWA FILPZ2
For more information please visit www.atlantacenter.net
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Dont forget to pickup a copy of Fsdreamteam's new KCLT!!! One of the best scenery releases in years!!
https://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_kclt.html
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(https://s9.postimg.org/4kjj6cu4v/cltlivevideo.png) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4gB8EgC7UY)
1 WEEK TO GO!
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Maybe I'm thinking a bit much in to it, but wouldn't calling this a "live" dilute the value or appeal of the actual live events?
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I think what Atlanta is aiming for here is a "real-ops" type of event, simulating real-world traffic loads at the time of the event. Whereas "Live" has always been a term used for in-person, live controlling events such as the annual events many ARTCCs host.
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We call it a Live event, not because our controllers are meeting up, in person, for a "live" controlling event, but because we are simulating how live we can make the airspace!
@Matthew
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We call it a Live event, not because our controllers are meeting up, in person, for a "live" controlling event, but because we are simulating how live we can make the airspace!
@Matthew
I saw that. Hence my question -- You clearly state that it's not a Live, yet call it a Live.
Camden's thought of it being a "real-ops" is likely closer, but that term is evidently muddy as I learned when asking what Cleveland intended with theirs. Apparently our European brethren use the term when flying RW timetables, whereas we seem to use it when trying to get bukus of traffic. I'm personally now a fan of what Ian did with ZDV's last FNO -- it had no theme in particular (other than being busy and staffed) and was just called an FNO. Short, sweet, and to the point.
While I seem to have taken a keen interest in something rather unusual (event names), I suppose just rather see people put effort in to the right endeavors (staffing, planning, etc.) rather than misrepresent an event (or degrade the effort put in by those that organize the actual live events -- I know they put in quite a bit of effort **well** above and beyond what any other event requires) through the name for some unknown reason.
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Hopefully this will be able to clarify, as apparently the description already provided isn't sufficient.
It has been a tradition in the ARTCC to not call our event "Real Ops" or something to the effect. We have called our events Atlanta Live! and Charlotte Live! for years now, and this is the first time it has been questioned. Why? Because it doesn't go with what other ARTCC's are doing.
As explained in the description, we are aiming to simulate how much we can bring the ARTCC and the airspace surrounding the featured airport to "Life". For other ARTCC's, Live means meeting up and controlling in one room together. To Atlanta Center controllers it means something completely different, thus in the future, we will still be calling these events Atlanta Live! or Charlotte Live!
I hope this clarifies the issue a little better. I do want to apologize to anyone who gets offended by this post, but we all have better things to be doing rather than critiquing a name for a simple event.
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Hopefully this will be able to clarify, as apparently the description already provided isn't sufficient.
It has been a tradition in the ARTCC to not call our event "Real Ops" or something to the effect. We have called our events Atlanta Live! and Charlotte Live! for years now, and this is the first time it has been questioned. Why? Because it doesn't go with what other ARTCC's are doing.
As explained in the description, we are aiming to simulate how much we can bring the ARTCC and the airspace surrounding the featured airport to "Life". For other ARTCC's, Live means meeting up and controlling in one room together. To Atlanta Center controllers it means something completely different, thus in the future, we will still be calling these events Atlanta Live! or Charlotte Live!
I hope this clarifies the issue a little better. I do want to apologize to anyone who gets offended by this post, but we all have better things to be doing rather than critiquing a name for a simple event.
I wholeheartedly agree with Will here. ZTL has been running Atlanta Live for longer than I have been on the network. If we are now criticizing the nomenclature ARTCC's use for events, then I would suggest that VATUSA make a ruling as to the official name of FNOs be just that, the FNO; However, I should note, making this ruling will be the downfall of the FNO event itself. Restricting something as silly as the name will cause USA's most well known event to become a stagnant pond. Just my two cents...
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Hopefully this will be able to clarify, as apparently the description already provided isn't sufficient.
It has been a tradition in the ARTCC to not call our event "Real Ops" or something to the effect. We have called our events Atlanta Live! and Charlotte Live! for years now, and this is the first time it has been questioned. Why? Because it doesn't go with what other ARTCC's are doing.
As explained in the description, we are aiming to simulate how much we can bring the ARTCC and the airspace surrounding the featured airport to "Life". For other ARTCC's, Live means meeting up and controlling in one room together. To Atlanta Center controllers it means something completely different, thus in the future, we will still be calling these events Atlanta Live! or Charlotte Live!
I hope this clarifies the issue a little better. I do want to apologize to anyone who gets offended by this post, but we all have better things to be doing rather than critiquing a name for a simple event.
I understand where you're coming from, but I only question it due to the commonly accepted VATSIM vernacular. It hasn't been questioned before? Great! I hadn't considered it until now. Nobody else had thought to question it before, either apparently. If we're not allowed to question things, what are we doing here in the first place? Most things aren't questioned until somebody bothers to ask the question.
Frankly, if we can't have these kinds of discussions anymore, VATUSA isn't a place I want to be anymore. I've already had one thread where I posed a question against the grain get locked. That's not a precedent we should encourage.
I wholeheartedly agree with Will here. ZTL has been running Atlanta Live for longer than I have been on the network. If we are now criticizing the nomenclature ARTCC's use for events, then I would suggest that VATUSA make a ruling as to the official name of FNOs be just that, the FNO; However, I should note, making this ruling will be the downfall of the FNO event itself. Restricting something as silly as the name will cause USA's most well known event to become a stagnant pond. Just my two cents...
Live events have been going on longer than you've been on the network.
I'm not suggesting that the names be restricted to "FNO" only, but if you're not going to theme it (as others do... regional themes, event themes, something to excite and encourage participation), riding the coat tails of others is unoriginal at best, and doing nothing to promote or grow the concept of the FNO. Pilots like the appeal of a small conference room full of sweaty controllers for whatever reason.
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I'm not suggesting that the names be restricted to "FNO" only, but if you're not going to theme it (as others do... regional themes, event themes, something to excite and encourage participation), riding the coat tails of others is unoriginal at best, and doing nothing to promote or grow the concept of the FNO. Pilots like the appeal of a small conference room full of sweaty controllers for whatever reason.
First off, this makes absolutely no sense. If I call an event a "Crossfire" I'm no more or less riding the coat tails of others than calling it a "Live" event. Secondly, I believe we are expanding and promoting the concept of the FNO. We produce Teaser Trailers and full on Press Kits for each of our FNOs, does anybody else? Nope! Third, the concept of Atlanta Live is a pretty original idea, although it may seem to others that it's similar to other "Real World Ops" Events, we like to think it was homegrown in Atlanta. In fact, based on the word of some senior controllers in the ARTCC, Atlanta Live has been around for 10+ years. I find it very disturbing that you are so engrossed in a simple matter of nomenclature, that you can't see beyond your own delusions that we are somehow polluting the sanctity of Friday Night Operations. Atlanta & Charlotte Live are some of the busiest events we have within ZTL and if our "marketing department" (because that's really what Events is) chooses to call it a Live event, then so be it.
Live events have been going on longer than you've been on the network.
Well no $#!t Sherlock. That's not what I was saying. I was saying Atlanta Live has been around for a long time, just how long is indicated above. In defense of Mr. Anderson who had mentioned no one had an issue with it before, I have to agree. It seems to me this is nothing more than an attempt to stir proverbial pot.
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I'm not suggesting that the names be restricted to "FNO" only, but if you're not going to theme it (as others do... regional themes, event themes, something to excite and encourage participation), riding the coat tails of others is unoriginal at best, and doing nothing to promote or grow the concept of the FNO. Pilots like the appeal of a small conference room full of sweaty controllers for whatever reason.
First off, this makes absolutely no sense. If I call an event a "Crossfire" I'm no more or less riding the coat tails of others than calling it a "Live" event. Secondly, I believe we are expanding and promoting the concept of the FNO. We produce Teaser Trailers and full on Press Kits for each of our FNOs, does anybody else? Nope! Third, the concept of Atlanta Live is a pretty original idea, although it may seem to others that it's similar to other "Real World Ops" Events, we like to think it was homegrown in Atlanta. In fact, based on the word of some senior controllers in the ARTCC, Atlanta Live has been around for 10+ years. I find it very disturbing that you are so engrossed in a simple matter of nomenclature, that you can't see beyond your own delusions that we are somehow polluting the sanctity of Friday Night Operations. Atlanta & Charlotte Live are some of the busiest events we have within ZTL and if our "marketing department" (because that's really what Events is) chooses to call it a Live event, then so be it.
Live events have been going on longer than you've been on the network.
Well no $#!t Sherlock. That's not what I was saying. I was saying Atlanta Live has been around for a long time, just how long is indicated above. In defense of Mr. Anderson who had mentioned no one had an issue with it before, I have to agree. It seems to me this is nothing more than an attempt to stir proverbial pot.
No need to devolve to profanity here, especially while representing your ARTCC and VATUSA. If any kind of dissenting opinion is simply going to perceived as nothing more than stirring the pot, then we have a larger cultural issue to solve. I'm asking because it perked my interest -- an in a special interest, online community, what's the harm in that?
If you called it a crossfire without a participating partner (or featuring two airports), then it would be riding those coattails, you're right. And to say ZTL is the original? I think Boston might take some offense to that.
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No need to devolve to profanity here, especially while representing your ARTCC and VATUSA.
Matthew, let me be extremely clear here. Do not pretend to know what is best for Atlanta or how Atlanta should be represented. That is the job of the ATM and myself. I would not expect someone who is not a member of staff to understand that, so let me further explain. It is part of my duties and responsibilities to represent and defend, when needed, Atlanta's ideals and traditions. Your question was answered, and yet you proceed to pushback. Hence my accusation of stirring the pot.
I'm sorry if our naming convention doesn't fall in line with your idea of the proper nomenclature for events, but what this boils down to is semantics and quite honestly I'm done spending another minute of my very valuable time dealing with such a frivolous endeavor.
I wish you well and hope to see you on Friday night, if you can just make it past mere semantics.
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Well no $#!t Sherlock.
Do not pretend to know what is best for Atlanta or how Atlanta should be represented. That is the job of the ATM and myself.
I think your ATM would agree that one way Atlanta should not be represented (along with any other ARTCC or VATSIM subset) is through profanity on a public forum, especially when it's coupled with an attitude.
Let's carry on from this discussion. Have a fantastic night on Friday, ZTL! :)
See you on the scopes,
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Good luck, Atlanta!
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Do not pretend to know what is best for Atlanta or how Atlanta should be represented. That is the job of the ATM and myself. I would not expect someone who is not a member of staff to understand that, so let me further explain.
And to demean me further? Ouch, this only keeps getting better.
I'd get reprimanded (with real consequences...) for talking to somebody like that at work. Here on VATSIM, I'd wager somebody could make a case of a CoC A1 violation here. I'm not generally the guy that would go running with that, but you're doing this in a public forum, representing your ARTCC. You're supposed to set an example.
I'm not sure why you're taking it so personally that I'm trying to start a discussion. I'm not sitting here damning or condemning ZTL. It just so happened ZTL was what caught my eye. It's my nature to ask questions. I ask questions to find out what's going on, to explore what's going on. I tend to find that those who get this defensive are the ones I need to then dig deeper on... not that it's the same here, but the defensive posture indicates something. It's what makes me good at what I do.
Perhaps VATUSA developing a naming guideline to align the intent and purposes of various events is in order. Or am I unqualified to participate in an open forum about the community as well? I'd be curious to understand why you think I'm unqualified or can't understand, but that should likely be a teamspeak conversation off of the forum.
but what this boils down to is semantics and quite honestly I'm done spending another minute of my very valuable time dealing with such a frivolous endeavor.
Isn't that part of the job? Also, that whole e-peen display there is similarly unbecoming. I do hope that your leadership is aware of your style of articulation and presentation.
Let's carry on from this discussion.
Fair enough, but it's unfortunate that I've seen a trend of this kind of behavior developing on the network, especially from senior ARTCC staff.
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I think your ATM would agree that one way Atlanta should not be represented (along with any other ARTCC or VATSIM subset) is through profanity on a public forum, especially when it's coupled with an attitude.
Actually, do not agree. Why? Because it shows willingness to not back down and willingness to stand up for himself and for the ARTCC. Is there some things I would have said differently or omitted? Yes, but I still think we need to stand up for both ourselves and our ARTCC, thus my tolerance of the messages.
Although, I do mind when people assume or make inferences about me, that is when I get irritated.
Mr. Kosmoski,
What I, nor the Events Coordinator appreciate, is informing us we should correct the name of our event because it does not fit the criteria you are used to seeing or you would like to see. Let's look at this quote from earlier in the discussion: "If we're not allowed to question things, what are we doing here in the first place? Most things aren't questioned until somebody bothers to ask the question."
If you want to continue to ask questions about banners, event names, or other irrelevant information regarding events, in the future, I would consider taking a different approach to raising such questions, as you can clearly see the current approach was not received well.
Each ARTCC has different reasons for putting names for their events which may not be known to someone who is not within the ARTCC. I believe this entire thread is could have been avoided if the name of ZTL's, not Mr. Kosmoski's, event was accepted as something to which will not change. With those final remarks, I am going to conclude this discussion here. If it were to continue, I do not see any good coming from it. Matthew, if you wish to discuss further, please feel free to send me an email, and I will get to it when I have time.
See you Friday.
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Btw, your banner doesn't match the title of the event.
Good luck and have fun on Friday.
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Btw, your banner doesn't match the title of the event.
The event title in the calendar says Charlotte LIVE. This thread is titled differently because it was created before we selected the final location for the FNO. I don't see anything in the rule book about event forum posts needing to match event titles... Oh wait, what rule book?
Thanks all for the well wishes. Hope to see you in the air or on the scopes! The Pilot Brief will be available soon, but for now you can check our facebook page for helpful information about Charlotte and tomorrow's event.
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I don't see anything in the rule book about event forum posts needing to match event titles... Oh wait, what rule book?
To be fair, there actually is something of a rulebook:
https://www.vatusa.net/docs/DP003.pdf
(and as linked within) http://www.vatusa.net/forums/index.php?topic=3856.0
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This was enjoyable to say the least. If I have learned one thing about Vatsim its that people will moan and complain about anything just for the sake of moaning and complaining.
I wish the most key essential thing in my life was moaning about what another ARTCC calls their event. Because then I wouldn't have any real life issues to deal with.
I thought VATSIM was supposed to be a hobby...I think a few people in this thread, no matter what side they support need to find a new hobby...
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Actually, do not agree. Why? Because it shows willingness to not back down and willingness to stand up for himself and for the ARTCC. Is there some things I would have said differently or omitted? Yes
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Although, I do mind when people assume or make inferences about me, that is when I get irritated.
Will,
All for defending yourselves, but we also need to hold ourselves accountable and remain professional.
Not making inferences about you. Simply saying, as a VATSIM Supervisor, that there is an expectation of all members (let alone ARTCC administration members) to stay courteous and respectful. What I saw did not seem to meet that standard, therefore, I chimed in.
If you couldn't tell, I was trying to help put this chain to an end and end on a positive note.
I'll try that again, and hopefully everyone gets the hint this time.
Have a great event tomorrow, ZTL!
Best,
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I'll try that again, and hopefully everyone gets the hint this time.
Hey now, some of are denser than that! :-)
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Please update the JFK to CLT routing to read RBV J230 >COPES< J75 GVE LYH.CHSLY2
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Hey now, some of are denser than that! :-)
:P ;D
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(http://i.imgur.com/OBwmXfz.png)
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I'm putting this thread to bed. VATUSA does not have any policies on what you may or may not call your event as long as it is not obscene.
While I personally agree that calling an event "Live" when it's not a live event may be misleading, it is not prohibited. Perhaps in the future ZTL could consider calling the event Atlanta Alive or Charlotte Real-Ops, etc.
Either way, we are done here. Have a good FNO ZTL.