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Messages - Steven Caffey

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The Classroom (Controller Tips) / Controlling the Arrivals
« on: February 29, 2012, 12:00:14 AM »
While we're on the topic of RNAV arrivals, I should point out that RNAV does not necessarily equal Profile. If the chart says "Expect X @ Y" then you can't "descend via" the arrival. (I've seen this way too many times to count)

There are RNAV arrivals that are profile (see: KEPEC2 and SUNST2 previously mentioned)

There are RNAV arrivals that are NOT profile (SEE BOJID1 @ PHL) The only hard restrictions on that arrival are the 190 kts speed restriction, all others are "Expect"

There are non-RNAV arrivals that ARE and are not profile. RIIVR2 @ LAX is profile, SADDE6 is not.

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The Classroom (Controller Tips) / Controlling the Arrivals
« on: February 28, 2012, 11:54:36 PM »
Quote from: Tim Roden
Where I have the problem is RNAV arrivals.  I have more and more controllers who want to give me a vector instead of having me fly the arrival as published that would would take me straight into the approach.  The 7110.65 says that you are not to take someone off of an RNAV until the last minute.  There is a list of reasons why you don't do it including traffic, noise etc.  Controllers need to read the arrivals before they are certified on approach.  They need to allow pilots to fly as published unless there is an problem such as traffic.  

Example.   Flying into Fort Lauderdale.  Jingle1 RNAV arrival.  Approach consistently gives me a 090 heading off of JINGLE for 9L.  You don't have to give any vectors cause the arrival brings you direct to HOLID from JEREM which is the inital fix on the 9L ILS.   All you have to do is tell the pilot which runway and what the altitude to fly.  If the pilot doesn't fly it then he can be given vectors.  

Any Arrival, you should not take them off until at least the crossing point.  I have not seen that problem anywhere in VATSIM.


Not necessarily. For example, the KEPEC2 and SUNST2 arrivals both end at PRINO, the IAF for the 25L ILS at KLAS. However, PRINO is a 21nm final. It's standard to take aircraft off the arrival near BLD and PTAC to SHAND or LARRE. Another reason for this is airspace (when split) the aircraft would enter Final APP's airspace, then leave it, only to turn around and come back into it.

Let's look at the JINGL1, since you mention it specifically. The text of the arrival says:

"From over RXXAN via 128* track to FORTL, thence as depicted to BEPAC, then voa 093* heading. Expect radar vectors" (emphasis mine)

The path to HOLID is a dotted line, and if you read the text, is confirmed to be for Lost Comms

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Controllers need to read the arrivals before they are certified on approach.[/quote]

Have a look at the chart again..


[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]The 7110.65 says that you are not to take someone off of an RNAV until the last minute.[/quote]

Reference please? I can't find that anywhere.

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