Doesn't the NAS Computer have something to do with that as well as the FDIO?

-ZZ

Yes, the NAS assigns the codes which are released to each facility by the Center.  The FDIO is simply the computer system used to link with the NAS.

Jeremy, I've been pondering your thoughts for about a day and I want to respond to this in a respectful manner being a CTI student myself...

Although I can somewhat understand how you could come to this conclusion, I don't think it's just or fair to blame the problems entirely on us at all. You appear to be classifying us, along with a few others here, as a bunch of ego-driven, short-sighted kids simply trying to dominate the network... and this, in turn, is driving away everyone from the network. I feel this is very deductive reasoning possibly caused by "a few" bad apples in the bunch...

I don't know exactly what experiences you've had with CTI students on VATSIM by any means and maybe it is possible that you have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with some foolish CTI students. I can certainly say that I have as well, but not all of us are this way by any means, Jeremy. You appear to be generalizing many of us into one category though which is definitely not the case. No disrespect at all, but you do not know many of us (and there are many CTI students scattered around this network). I can speak for those I know, for sure, that they are actually extremely "sound" and "well-rounded" individuals that know and understand the limitations and differences between VATSIM and the real world quite well, maybe even more so than you or others give us credit for...

I've had the fortunate experience of being able to meet and learn from many real world controllers I've met on the network. Not only have they taught me a lot of about controlling in general, but they've been kind enough to allow me (and others like me) the opportunity to tour facilities for many shifts to learn about the work environment (and in some cases, have the opportunity to do "hands on" work than just simply observing) and see, first hand, the differences between VATSIM, CTI, and the real world (and all three are very different from each other).

Make no mistake, I know for a fact that you are certainly correct, Jeremy, that many CTI students have absolutely no idea what they are getting into and end up falling flat on their faces in the real world (C90 has also washed out tons of CTI students under the same circumstances). I don't think that VATSIM is entirely responsible for that, however. That's individual foolishness that has caused this among many. As a lab assistant at my university, I've personally seen VATSIM controllers come into the labs with massive egos, thinking that they do know it all, and it's always been extremely foolish and unfortunate for them. However, I always did my best to try and set them straight while teaching in the labs, because at least I could respect the differences between VATSIM, CTI, and the real world.

I agree with AJ Heiser's comments as well. It's OK to be realistic about your controlling so long as you are respectful to others at the same time. My personal experiences on VATSIM have shown me that many look up to those of us with a lot of knowledge and passion towards the career (both on either the pilot side or controller side) and they want to learn as much as possible from us and others with real world experience. I think it's very unfair to classify us as problematic individuals causing all of the problems here. I feel like I'm doing something good for this community sharing what I know with others, and teaching them to be respectful about the differences in the real world. If it encourages someone to get into the career, that's amazing then and VATSIM should be proud of that fact for sparking an aviation interest with someone.

Hopefully any of the bad apples you may have dealt with, Jeremy, will read this and think twice... I truthfully do believe that many of us CTI students will end up being very successful in the career, however. I'm not trying to toot my own horn with this post, by any means either. I just would like people to know that there are many of us out there with a firm understanding and respect for the differences between VATSIM and the real world (although many of us do not have any real world experience yet). I Ask anyone to read this to not throw us all into a bad category for VATSIM...



Sincere Regards,

AJ

AJ,

It was not my intent to have my post read as catigorizing certain individuals and posting the blame, I apologize if you took it that way.  I was only attempting to use an example.  Yes, you are correct there are many CTI students on here who are humble and do their best to provide realistic service with a freindly feel.  But as you said there are also those bad apples out there who do carry themselves higher than everyone else on the network.  In the real world we do have to act like that because pilots will attempt to take over your freq, some people bring this attitude to the network.

I have invited and taken many people from VATSIM up to my facility and let them get the sense of how things really work.  Many are surprised to find that even in a tower setting, it's not even close to VATSIM and I continue to offer out an invitation to anyone who wants to experience that.  Point is, one way that we can attract more pilots is to have that freindly atmosphere that some people (not just CTI students) have taken away from the network.

We've been through all that.  A pilot training versus controller training debate is something we've all seen before.

Let me see if I can get the discussion back on track.

Pretend we didn't have any controllers on this network at all.  

How would you attract more pilots?

That's kind of a moot point isn't it?  The only way to attract more pilots is to show a presence.  How many pilots did we have flying when we had FNO's or major VATUSA scale events?  The problem I see is we have the ability to staff a multitude of positions, but because WE at VATUSA suddenly decided one day that we are going to make FAA style training programs that limit people with no aviation background from getting on a position and doing something that they'd probably never be able to do.  Yes, you are correct, we can't just let someone sign on to CTR the first time they ever work traffic, but we shouldn't stop someone if their phraseology isn't 100% perfect or they don't understand wake turbulence separation.  I think someone in here said it best, at some point people made VATSIM a stepping stone to their career, and that's when we went down hill.  No offense to those CTI students here, but (and I've seen this in the real world also) until you work real live traffic, you have no place to act like you know what you're doing and do it better than everyone else.  In the last year, we've washed out 5 CTI grads, and our traffic is down 50%.  Sure they may know the book word for word, but the don't have the capacity or common sense to think ahead.  So, let's not make it so difficult for the average person to get certified in a virtual environment.  If we do that, you'll see more staffing and finally, more pilots.

Hmmmm, just found something quite interesting.  Now, it's been quite awhile (1 year) since I've taken a hard look at the GRP and LCTP procedures.  When I was on the VATUSA staff, the primary intent (as written) of the LCTP was to limit students from controlling on their own at MAJOR airports ( Class B ).  Under certain circumstances, approved by VATUSA, ARTCC's could limit other airports by showing cause of need.  So, my question is, why are some ARTCCs limiting controllers from working Class D airports under the LCTP?  Aren't we taking this a little too far?

Richard,

Now we all know there are those staff members that don't do anything productive. We all know they shouldn't have the opportunity to hold some of the titles that they do, but they do, and for the most part, we can't change that. However, when the politics of this virtual organization get to the point where it's pushing the good people out of positions, then obviously it's an issue that should be looked at and addressed.

Respectfully,

-Mike

+1

I have known Mike and Rob for quite some time, and they are great people.  Not only are they very easy to get along with, they have the desire to volunteer their free time to make this place better.  I too was at one time one of these volunteers, and while I wasn't forced out of my position like my colleague was, the sickening politics that were transpiring in a VIRTUAL environment made me throw my hands up.  Why should those of us who actually care put up our time and effort when someone who only cares about as Rob put it, "the title", is put in front of us?  If there's one thing I learned from the military, it's that leaders can't be leaders if they're forced to follow, and that is what is happening to VATUSA today.

I AM a real life controller at one of the busiest towers in the country.

I USED to love to share my knowledge to those who wanted to be like the real thing.

I USED to be a VATSIM Instructor and teach students.

I USED to love giving virtual pilots a true experience.

I STOPPED because of virtual politics.....  

Does it make you turn your head a little and say hmmmmmm?

Gary check your PM Inbox.

As of today, I have tendered my resignation as VATUSA7.  Thank you too all of the members of the VATUSA Western Region for making my job easier and keeping VATUSA on the right track!