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General Discussion / Airports denying IFR services during an event.
« on: April 10, 2020, 07:05:16 PM »
I was hoping I could find some help here. I am fairly new to the network and so far, my time has been enjoyable. I have flown into a few events and had a great time doing it. I have flown single engine high wings all the way up to the A330, and every time has been a joy.
This evening I was flying in the Short 330 into Philadelphia to practice my IFR skills and to help with bringing traffic to the event. I had a filed IFR flight plan, and was hoping to work on some IFR practice approaches. When I called up the approach controller and requested a couple IFR practice approaches I was told “You can get the visual to runway 26, but we can’t help you with the practice approaches.” When I asked why the only answer I was given was they just say we can’t.
I complied with the controller, and proceeded on with my flight, and went to the Code of Conduct to see if there was a rule that said I could not fly practice approaches into an event. The only thing I could find in the Code of Conduct that said anything about denying services is that a controller can deny you “Emergency Procedures”
I then requested to speak with a SUP using the .wallop command, and I didn’t get a straight answer.
“[23:28:16] Name: Rick Rump
[23:28:16] DC_T_CTR: Hello, my name is Rick Rump, and I'm one of the VATSIM Supervisors. Do you have a moment to chat?
[23:30:09] POKEY17: Mr. Rump good evening. I have a quick question for you. Can the ATM of an ARTCC deny you IFR practice approaches into an event airport? I'm not asking for pattern traffic, I just want to do some practice approaches, and when I made my request I was told " We can get you visual into run way 26 but can't help you with practice approaches." Since when can an airspace deny IFR traffic?
[23:32:06] DC_T_CTR: Lonnie, Are you trying to fly into PHL?
[23:32:17] POKEY17: Correct sir.
[23:33:00] DC_T_CTR: I would recommend against it, there are quite a few other airports you can do that at that are fully staffed like KMD or KABE.
[23:33:32] DC_T_CTR: KMDT*
[23:33:36] POKEY17: Is there a reason why I shouldn't I don’t see anything in the rules that says I can’t fly IFR into an event?
[23:33:39] DC_T_CTR: or KDCA, KIAD or KBWI.
[23:33:54] DC_T_CTR: Its a very busy event.
[23:35:42] DC_T_CTR: If you want to practice approaches, for the enjoyment of everyone I would recommend flying into a nearby airport that is staffed. If you REALLY want to do a practice approach into PHL you would need to work with them for them to be able to fit you in.
[23:36:04] POKEY17: All of the events are busy events; I am not seeing a point. Isn’t the point of an event to bring all traffic not just commercial jet traffic? I've never been denied IFR service into an airport since I started flying on VATSIM, I am just confused as to why all of a sudden this is an issue, when it hasn't been an issue at any other airspace including yours.
[23:38:55] POKEY17: I'm just going to disconnect if they don't want the traffic ill fly elsewhere.
So I pretty much got a non-answer. It was less of a “Yes, they can deny you service”, or a “no they can’t” and what I got was more of a “Well it’s going to be super busy.” I thought that was the point of an event? To bring in as much traffic as possible so we can all enjoy the network? I was not asking to jump into the traffic pattern and sit there all night. I was just looking to fly some approaches. Like any other IFR traffic arriving into the airport.
My question is. Am I missing something in the code of conduct? What makes the long stream of jet traffic arriving into the airfield and more important than say a pilot in a single engine Cessna, or in my case a Twin Engine Turbo prop?
Am I being the bad guy here by expecting services during an event?
I would appreciate your input on this.
This evening I was flying in the Short 330 into Philadelphia to practice my IFR skills and to help with bringing traffic to the event. I had a filed IFR flight plan, and was hoping to work on some IFR practice approaches. When I called up the approach controller and requested a couple IFR practice approaches I was told “You can get the visual to runway 26, but we can’t help you with the practice approaches.” When I asked why the only answer I was given was they just say we can’t.
I complied with the controller, and proceeded on with my flight, and went to the Code of Conduct to see if there was a rule that said I could not fly practice approaches into an event. The only thing I could find in the Code of Conduct that said anything about denying services is that a controller can deny you “Emergency Procedures”
I then requested to speak with a SUP using the .wallop command, and I didn’t get a straight answer.
“[23:28:16] Name: Rick Rump
[23:28:16] DC_T_CTR: Hello, my name is Rick Rump, and I'm one of the VATSIM Supervisors. Do you have a moment to chat?
[23:30:09] POKEY17: Mr. Rump good evening. I have a quick question for you. Can the ATM of an ARTCC deny you IFR practice approaches into an event airport? I'm not asking for pattern traffic, I just want to do some practice approaches, and when I made my request I was told " We can get you visual into run way 26 but can't help you with practice approaches." Since when can an airspace deny IFR traffic?
[23:32:06] DC_T_CTR: Lonnie, Are you trying to fly into PHL?
[23:32:17] POKEY17: Correct sir.
[23:33:00] DC_T_CTR: I would recommend against it, there are quite a few other airports you can do that at that are fully staffed like KMD or KABE.
[23:33:32] DC_T_CTR: KMDT*
[23:33:36] POKEY17: Is there a reason why I shouldn't I don’t see anything in the rules that says I can’t fly IFR into an event?
[23:33:39] DC_T_CTR: or KDCA, KIAD or KBWI.
[23:33:54] DC_T_CTR: Its a very busy event.
[23:35:42] DC_T_CTR: If you want to practice approaches, for the enjoyment of everyone I would recommend flying into a nearby airport that is staffed. If you REALLY want to do a practice approach into PHL you would need to work with them for them to be able to fit you in.
[23:36:04] POKEY17: All of the events are busy events; I am not seeing a point. Isn’t the point of an event to bring all traffic not just commercial jet traffic? I've never been denied IFR service into an airport since I started flying on VATSIM, I am just confused as to why all of a sudden this is an issue, when it hasn't been an issue at any other airspace including yours.
[23:38:55] POKEY17: I'm just going to disconnect if they don't want the traffic ill fly elsewhere.
So I pretty much got a non-answer. It was less of a “Yes, they can deny you service”, or a “no they can’t” and what I got was more of a “Well it’s going to be super busy.” I thought that was the point of an event? To bring in as much traffic as possible so we can all enjoy the network? I was not asking to jump into the traffic pattern and sit there all night. I was just looking to fly some approaches. Like any other IFR traffic arriving into the airport.
My question is. Am I missing something in the code of conduct? What makes the long stream of jet traffic arriving into the airfield and more important than say a pilot in a single engine Cessna, or in my case a Twin Engine Turbo prop?
Am I being the bad guy here by expecting services during an event?
I would appreciate your input on this.