Zach, I  appreciate the kind words and the mention.  I do think that as a network, VATSIM can do more to point pilots to resources to learn and get started.  And I do think there needs to be some accountability when they refuse to do so.

However, as much of a proponent of General Aviation flying I am, I don't think *forcing* pilots to start with GA is the right move.  The overwhelming majority of VATSIM pilots want to fly airliners because that is what they consider fun and that is what interests them.  Forcing them to first do X-dozen hours of something that they *don't* consider fun and that *doesn't* interest them is not the right way to go.  It's only going to chase them away.

There are thousands upon thousands of perfectly capable virtual airliner pilots on the network on a weekly basis, and many of them have 0.0 hours in anything smaller than 100,000 pounds.   Let's figure out how they got there and encourage the rest of our budding Captains to follow a similar path.   The ones who want to gravitate toward General Aviation will do so, and I think we've proven that we can make that experience super-enjoyable when they do.  But let's not force the ones who don't.

Rob,

My apologies, I think I may have worded the above a bit misleading. My point was to highlight that we have many resources available such as the VUFC, and streams such as yours, that are either entirely dedicated, or partially dedicated to the promotion of VFR flying and the basic foundations of aviation.  As always, I more than value your opinion here and I do agree with you.  It wouldn't be logical to force new pilots to fly VFR or smaller aircraft for "X" amount of hours.  However, I do think that encouraging those new pilots to do so could be a good helping hand in fixing part of the quality issues. 

Since my last post, I had thought of a way to easily put something like that into fruition.  When a new pilot signs up for a membership on the network, does the CBT, etc. and is finally set free, perhaps an email and/or pop-up screen highlighting some of the network's assets wouldn't hurt.  Among those in this "list", could be categorization of which assets offer what.  For example, a category of clubs/groups such as the VUFC that offer introductory style VFR events and some complex ones as well, plus a million helping hands within the community.  Along with that could be categories of streamers;  Training/instructional/VFR streamers such as Eric, VFR event and processes streamers such as Mike, Navigational and technique-based flying streamers such as yourself, and of course the inclusion of some of the larger streamers who stream mostly IFR/airliners/more complex flights.  (**note, as far as the examples above go, they are simply just some of the best quality that I have seen, and I of course cannot speak on their behalf)

By having categorized resources like the above, and promptly advertising them through at least 2 direct routes, the awareness of those resources' existence in my opinion surely would have us all on the right steps towards fixing quality issues, and to help those who may be a bit lost.  It goes without saying that there are definitely some trolls that peruse the network, but I think a majority of the pilot quality issues are simply due to honest confusion.  By choosing to include resources such as these, we not only give back to those who put blood sweat and tears into supporting Vatsim, but also remove the line of confusion between new pilots, and the quality information/material that can help them prosper within the network. 

Above all, the suggestions on this thread are all incredible, but I do really like the idea of having a pilot feedback system, especially one along the lines of the NASA system that Zhenhao suggested.  With ARTCC/sector-based data logging of common mistakes, VATUSA and it's divisions can use this information to find remedies to common issues such as the infamous ORCKA departure turn out of LAX.  With publicly available incident reports (but no PI revealed), those whom may wish to take the responsible course of action prior to flying into a new airport could now have a valuable resource that can highlight the common mistakes and misconceptions of the procedures associated with a particular airport.

Cheers,
Zach

Hi All,

Hope everyone had a great 4th of July weekend.  I've been reading through the mid-year thread for a while now and am glad to see that the discussion of pilot quality is becoming more widespread. Based on some things that I have read above I figured I'd chime in quick on the topic through a non-controller perspective.

Since the origination of MSFS integrating with the network, I've noticed (and believe many others have too) the mass influx of these new members jumping straight into their Neos and 747s, as when those new to aviation think about aviation, airliners are generally what comes to mind first rather than the basics such as 172s and the like.  Now, of course the network is based upon having the freedom to fly whatever, and wherever, but I do believe that the majority of the new members on the network are really missing out on some of the finer things that aviation has to offer, and even the basis of MSFS itself: VFR flying. 

I know that there is a growing increase in members discussing the need for more introduction training/CBT for new pilots on the network, but training systems also take thousands of man-hours to create and sustain; something that may be part of the hinderance to jump to that ship.  In my eyes, I wanted to suggest looking at some of the community generated assets that may be little-known, but are extremely beneficial to the pilot-training portion of the network.  What really stands out to me, is the Virtual USA Flying Club.  No, this is not some shameless plug, just a community asset that I've come to really hold at a high standard on Vatsim, and admire the hard work that the VUFC community puts in to being personable with new members on the network. 

I joined the VUFC about a year or so ago, and attend most of their fly-in events.  Surely it is a ton of fun, but to me, the golden ticket there are the community members that it is comprised of.  Over time, I see dozens and dozens of pilots new to the network that join, but often with many questions even as simple as how to fly a pattern.  There has not been a single question there that has not been answered by a handful of people, often even offering to jump into a voice channel and work one on one with them.  My basis for that is, I see Vatsim and/or VATUSA trying to partner with larger streamers to bring in new people, but once these newcomers join, it just adds to the growing group of those who may be a bit lost, or jump straight into the airliners.  Possibly discussing a partnership with a group such as the VUFC as an option for newcomers to join, not only would help alleviate frustration that newcomers may have, but also will teach the very fundamentals of aviation (VFR) that in my eyes would be asinine for someone to not understand prior to hopping into an IFR scenario. 

Building upon that in terms of partnerships (and streamers), the new stream partnership announcement I think is pretty cool, but I took it with a grain of salt as well.  To me, and I know to some others as well, a lot of these streamers inadvertently draw in a large part of the crowd that wants to jump straight into airliners and complex aircraft.  Theoretically, this is because they see the guy on stream can fly the A320, so why can't they jump in and do the same?  Flying of course is a lot more than just following the checklists or steps from the streamer.   Communication and processes are a huge part, which often is overlooked and to me is a large part of the frustration that controllers are facing. 

In terms of business and marketing, I get it.  Partnering with well known large streamers is a huge key to growing brand awareness.  I mean, Microsoft parters with some of the world's largest marketing firms, not the guy on Fiverr, right?  But I also think that it is effective only to a certain point.  Going back to the above in regards to the VUFC, there are a few key streamers in there that work most specifically on VFR flights, simple IFR, and how-to/instructional videos as well, for example Eric (EricFlight), Rob (Slant Alpha Adventures), Mike (Jet Pilot Cinnamon), and the list goes on.  They may not have the largest following, but I think it would be absolutely more than beneficial to work with some of the dedicated individuals such as the ones listed above if we are talking stream partnerships.  It's a quality over quantity scenario for me, and I think that may be the missed point here.  Having partnerships with personable streamers that interact with everyone in the chat log to promote the learnings and fundamentals of aviation to me would be a no brainer, especially considering that many of them are a lot more dedicated to Vatsim itself than the ones who get on Twitch and make $5K per video.  Kudos to them for creating that type of income stream, but considering that Vatsim is a non-profit organization, wouldn't we want to be partnering with those who dedicate their time to volunteering and helping others on the network rather than creating money incentivized Twitch moguls?  And I don't want to get off on the wrong foot there, as I have tons of respect for those who can create such large followings online and I am more than sure that they are all great quality people.  But at the same time, I think it would be a bit more logical to look into those who have been with Vatsim for years, dedicated to furthering Vatsim and the knowledge of new-school AND old-school pilots on the network. In my eyes, giving back to those who have been here through the thick and thin by supporting their channels (which have supported Vatsim for years) is not only just a moral thing, but it's also just a clear and simple way to help alleviate the pilot issues.

I don't mean to go on and on and on here, but there does become a point in which people start to notice that the efforts from above are shifting more to growing a brand instead of working to patch up some rough areas.  We can't build a 10 story building when the 1st floor has weakened supports. 

TLDR, the pilot quality issue is getting worse.  There is no way to disregard that; but IMO Vatsim is continuing to follow the wrong route by promoting large streamers to bring more new pilots to the network.  This only adds to the group of people that hop straight into complex IFR and airliner scenarios that are way above their head, completely skipping right over all of the fundamentals of flying (VFR, training, common procedures, radio communication, etc.).  We have resources that are already built for this (such as the VUFC, and smaller but more dedicated streamers), but they are overlooked each day as eyes gaze upon the member count number and mouths drool over making it increase.  Lately Vatsim just seems to have lost it's personal "zest" that it held for well over a decade, and has become more of a hostile corporate-feeling community rather than the personalized buddy network that it was.

I must note, I don't mean to take a dig at anyone, or anything.   I am more than grateful for what Vatsim and the community has to offer for everyone and myself, but I just can't help but notice that it seems to be taking the wrong turn towards rapid expansion rather than addressing pilot quality. By recognizing the tools out there in the community we could more than help the alleviation of such issues. Just my thought processes. Hopefully this reaches some fruition at the higher levels.

Best regards,
Zach