I, for one, welcome our new maple syrup drinking overlords.

I'm quite late to this thread.. been awhile since I've been forum active, so what better way to get back in the action than go necroposting? lol

Anyway, is that you or the maple syrup talking Mr. Lahey? 

They have apparently merged with Quadranet, and Quadranet is very good, aside from traditionally being a bit on the pricey side.

I own a server in Kansas... It has Windows Server 2003 running on it. Would that work for your purposes?

Okay,

Let me clarify. Ratings came from SATCO. Some of you don't know what that is, but it may only be a handful. Now, C3 rating was meant to acknowledge that a Center Rated controller worked 200 hours on a "_CTR" position. The hours did not count for sitting on east bumble delivery. They had to be logged on a "_CTR" position.

Now, here is the question for Kevin and anyone else. How many cookies and golden star stickers and badges must be passed out to people on this network to make them feel appreciated? Should I just arbitrarily honor you for some set number of hours you've logged working a regular position?

Or should I respect and reward you for putting in time and effort to help make this community better, such as assisting an EC, designing an ARTCC Logo, doing website work, performing staff duties as an ARTCC or VATUSA staff member, help author countless numbers of SOPs, LOAs, or learning how to develop sector files and keeping them up-to-date for others to use?

Anybody who wants to be rewarded because of hours should only want to be rewarded for the time and effort they put in GIVING BACK. Jockeying a computer for hours on end with watching youtube videos, twittering about how you just posted a comment or link on someone's facebook wall all the while plugging a position working little to no traffic at odd hours of the day or night is not with recognition on the level of being GIVEN any sort of rating. Period.

Senior controller recognition should come not only because of time plugged in, but rather the showing of dedication, pride, and at times disgust, many of us here have put into or received from this community.

The big difference is the willingness to give back, versus asking someone else to always give to you.

I earned my C3 with pride, and I know what it stands for to me. Hours on position ain't it.

Seems to me that Harold has really hit the core problem square on the head. The rest is really just drivel.

For anyone who pays taxes to the U.S. Government, this new program will be a double taxation on a service we already pay for. I am vehemently against this. We should not be concerning ourselves with ensuring we receive the charts, but more so the idea that our government can impose a tax or "user fee" on top of what we already pay.

The FAA (and the rest of GOVT) needs to learn how to live within it's means, not continually force the citizens/taxpayers to hand over their lunch money.

Write your representatives, AOPA, FAA, NBAA, local airport authorities, EAA etc etc.

Fight this tooth and nail.

Thank you everyone for the congratulations. I am honored to have been chosen, and will do my best to be a dedicated member to the ARTCC and VATUSA as a whole.

I know the decision for Dhruv was not easy and there were a few other well qualified candidates. I would like to acknowledge Mr. Alex Zayas and Mr. Matt Bartels for their combined dedication, determination and efforts both within the ZMP ARTCC and without. I am looking forward to working with these guys to keep ZMP on the track of success. It is all of us combined, not just one person, or one position, who makes this ARTCC what it is, and without their efforts, mine would be but a tiny ripple in the pond. Together however we shall create Tsunamis of traffic!  

To AJ, please take up any complaints you have with your FacRep, Oprah. I was dissappointed we didn't get that last evening in as well, somewhere in the chaos of the last day everyone's plans became a free-for-all. Thankfully our next major event is only 5 months away, and we'll go intertubing down the river once more.

Thanks again everyone!

Andrew just some thoughts.

Brian,

Just some thoughtful replies to your thoughts  

Fair and Balanced, that's a news slogan for Fox News, no where in VATSIM does it state we'll be fair and balanced in every aspect or any for the matter of fact.

I don't watch Fox news so I wouldn't have thought of that off the top of my head. I think however I detect some humor from you with this?

Andrew I think you're off base with the leaders of this network being the bullied and taking it out on others. From day 1 VATSIM has been about inclusivity and not elitism or realism taking priority.

Perhaps I am off base with the majority. However, there are those out there that will, and have, done things to purposely spite those who enjoy realism. If you do not agree, then I agree to disagree.

It's funny you mention the old days of SATCO with 300 members at a fly-in. Pilots back then were the same as now. In fact things were less realistic then on many fronts simply due to lack of the available material.

I don't think this is funny at all. Pilots back then were not the same as they are today. Back then pilots didn't have the resources available to them, nor did they have many fancy FMS or GPS programs, or advanced panels with these features. In fact, if you recall, SquawkBox had a built-in FMS that allowed for lateral navigation, and functioned much like VasFMC functions. The Nav/Fix data was updated regularly. The difference between pilots back then and now is that they craved charts. If you were able to find charts. Perhaps you forget about programs such as Georges Lorschs's Final Approach? People used to design charts themselves and share them with others. These things were prized possessions, and when found, pilots jumped at the chance to use them. Everyone was hungry for this stuff.

Now it's common for someone to fly an arrival as published, back then only a minority at best would spend the real money on publications with STARS/SIDS/Diagrams etc.

I agree to an extent. With the advent of flightaware, any yahoo can search for a route. In fact, even with simroutes people can find a route. Sure they can file it. But more often than not (more so with RNAV DPs and STARs) they do not check to ensure all of the waypoints have been loaded correctly. Many simply download a Default GPS Flightplan file and load it up. They then file the route, but do not fly it correctly. Pilots back in the day at least tried to do things that would ensure compliance with a file routing. Yeah you saw a lot of GPS Direct and things of that nature, but ATC was expecting it because that is what was filed. These days you get yahoos that don't file correctly, and thus don't do what you were expecting.

Sector files were basically big maps with VOR/NDBS/FIXES's and if you were lucky someone hard coded a diagram. Now we can add approaches, turn on/off all sorts of diagrams of all kinds, and get different radar modes.

This is true. But again, I remember going out and buying a book written by a former A80 Tracon controller. In this book were diagrams of the Tracon maps. It took me a lot of time, but I hand coded to the best of my ability these lines to give an accurate representation of what the Tracon Airspace layout was. When I released it, controllers went GaGa over it. You would have thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now, these days, even some controllers treat this stuff with indifference. Maybe that's because they never went without? I don't really know...

Things have "advanced" a lot and at a good pace I think, for those that take it to the next level good for you, but remember the core focus of VATSIM has never been about "as real as it gets" as pointed out by David Klain in a post tonight. That's Microsofts slogan, just like Fox News uses Fair and Balanced. Neither are attributed to VATSIM.

Yes things have advanced. But only so many people have advanced with the advances. No, the core focus has never been "as real as it gets," and with as many slogans that you are able to identify perhaps you might consider a job as a Microsoft or Fox News spokesperson?   In all seriousness though, VATSIM doesn not have a true mission statement, at least not where I can find it. There is a broad scope description on the 'About Vatsim' page which contains some touchy-feely statements (some which I do agree with) but were written by (IMHO) a collective group of misguided ideologues. These people, as defined by Webster, are impractical idealist simply because you can't say you're simulating something, but then take away the realism. Simulation, as defined by Webster, is "the imitative representation of the functioning of one system or process by means of the functioning of another." Well you take do that by taking away the realism, because as Webster defines imitation, we are in fact using real world ATC as the "functioning system" which we "..follow as a pattern, model, or example."

(End Rant)

Same

Boy I didn't think I'd return back to the forums, but some good friends ushered me back in this direction. I, too, left VATSIM for many of the reasons stated in this thread, although my view wasn't as popular back when I chose to make the decision. Everything said in this thread is entirely the reason why I resigned the Division Director position, and my dissent lead to my dismissal from the pilot training staff. I really feel bad for Gary, because as a former staff member I know exactly how it feels to not be considered as part of the solution to many problems. The BoG and Founders ARE out of touch with this organization and will continue to be until they actually listen to the constituency.

I would caution those applying the carte blanche principle to this debate. I can promise you that the entire BoG is not corrupt or out of touch, and I'm afraid Kyle Ramsey's remarks are being applied out of context. Kyle's experiences make him a valuable asset to VATSIM, and I would encourage everyone who has issues with VATSIM to speak with him because he WILL support a valid opinion that is supported by evidence. I worked with him for quite some time and I stand nothing to gain by the public praise, so take that for what it's worth.

Hopefully the upper management will recognize that David Klain's advice of "If you don't like it, then leave" is actually being taken. You've lost people who once had a passion for this hobby and for this organization. You are NOTHING without your volunteers, and this is something to think about as you see those of us who have left and those who are currently packing their bags. You're losing your playground.

[Insert all of AJ's post here, as he said it better than I could.]

- Alex

Alex,

You and I have a mutual friend who was once the ATM of ZTL during SATCO days and a founding member of this network. Those of us posting in this forum are not the only ones who don't like the direction this network is going.....

To continue on:

As one who started back when this thing was called SATCO (I hear some 15 year old kid in the background saying, "What's SATCO???") I can say VATSIM as a whole has changed. Personally for me the change is a negative. I remember times on SATCO, using ProController mind you, when events would draw 300 pilots during the course of 4-5 hours. These pilots were taught Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Some of you old heads remember having "TURN THEN TYPE!" listed in your controller info. The big difference back then is that the pilots were really keen about learning how to do things as closely as possible to real world procedures. Controllers were the same. As others have put it, we all took pride in bettering our understanding and craved anything that would increase it.

Now-a-days it seems, I say it SEEMS, certain groups of individuals have their minds set on lowering the standard of training which so many of us years ago put so much pride into. The sad part is that the perception behind the decisions implementing the new changes is one of making things easier for pilots. But it really is not a perception. This is real. For a network that requires controllers to undergo training, but allows pilots to login without so much reading one single manual, or even taking an entry exam... Well... Fair and Balanced? I think not. So all of us who have put in so much time and effort to SIMULATE the ATC Environment, suffer for the benefit of the new generation of pilots, and in many cases, ATC'ers.

But lets face the reality... The whole thing, IMHO, is about membership numbers. VATSIM is/was losing members (supposedly). I personally believe this is due to a continued lack of realism on the part of many, and the continued justification and totalitarianism of many within the upper ranks. This is not to say each member of the upper ranks sees things this way. I can assure that at least one does not.

IMHO, many of the decisions being made are introduced by those who are now in the position of getting their way. These same individuals are the ones who did not like realism from the beginning. The same ones who got mad at those of us who worked hard to be the best we could be. Now, like children who were once bullied but grew-up to be wealthy, they themselves are doing things their way, as if out of spite. Could I be wrong about this? Absolutely. But when these individuals make the remarks that are too commonly quoted throughout these forums and elsewhere, it doesn't take a whole lot to see how many of these guys are acting like spoiled brats.

I think AJ summed up the feelings most of us 'relics' from days gone by are feeling. I personally think perhaps it is time for a division of individuals to split off from VATSIM and start a new organization which tailors to the realists. I mean, how ironic would that be? Years ago IVAO was founded by former SATCO/VATSIM members due to circumstances similar, albeit quite the opposite, of what we are experiencing now with VATSIM. Too much realism in IVAOs eyes (amongst other, more politcal reasons). Perhaps VATSIM is quickly becoming the new IVAO. Again, how ironic would that be?

I personally will not resign from VATSIM as I truly do love this community and try to give it as much as I can. VATSIM is about the best as it gets when it comes to online flying, and I do still have many enjoyable moments on the network and many folks whom I consider friends. If however, something better were to come along, well.........

So Alex, it's nice of you to share with us. From one old head to another, blue skies.

To everyone else who is singing a Peter Frampton song right now, tail winds to you.

"Do You Feel Like We Do.....Oh that's true"

Andrew

That's been tried before, and was discontinued.

I assume it didn't work out too well then?

Best laid plans...