Too high on approach!

[Erik Wachters]

Hello,

The last three flights I flew on Vatsim in the US, the controller always put me to high on the approach.
One time at KDEN, I had to take the spoilers out until about 1000ft AGL and had to descent like a rock.
The other times where at KDFW and KMIA.
Why don't you controllers just vector us for an ILS in stead of a visual?
And if you want to fly us a visual, why don't you take a look at an ILS approach chart to see how high you have to put us at what distance?

I know what you guys gone say (ask for an ILS, go around....) but still.............

btw, thank you for all the good times @ vatsim.

Erik
EBBR

P.S.: Sorry for my bad english  

[Benton Wilmes]

If you were given a visual approach each time, it is up to you as the pilot to fly an approach down to the runway. If you are too high, then do what you need to do in order to get down as the controller just gets you low enough to see the airport (not necessarily low enough to fly an ILS approach exactly).

If they were ILS approaches, then it's another story. You should never be vectored to join the ILS above the glide slope.

[Christopher Pippin]

If you were given a visual approach each time, it is up to you as the pilot to fly an approach down to the runway. If you are too high, then do what you need to do in order to get down as the controller just gets you low enough to see the airport (not necessarily low enough to fly an ILS approach exactly).

If they were ILS approaches, then it's another story. You should never be vectored to join the ILS above the glide slope.

True.  I second this- however I also agree with Erik.  I personally do just as he suggested and assign altitudes that allow for a standard approach descent.  I think Erik had multiple controllers vector him to a final for him to call the field and at that point he was so high that he had to dive bomb to make it.  I agree with Erik that sometimes controllers can look for the easy way to give an approach and in the process not set them up in a way that makes it not only easy on YOU the controller but also on the Pilot.

My .02

-CP

[Pan Lalas]

Why don't you controllers just vector us for an ILS in stead of a visual?

I understand that visual approaches on FS are a little bit more difficult since the situational awareness is reduced (no side views, not a good perspective projection of the runway etc). To make your life easier, I suggest you do what your real world counterparts do. Tune the frequency and the course and fly with the FD and raw data from the ILS of the runway. In the beginning you can even start flying with the AP and gradually start reducing the AGL at which you disconnect the automations and take manual control. In time you'll see a huge improvement on your visual approach technique. Pay close attention to the commanded RoD and pitch settings on your PFD. Learn some very easy rules of thumb. For example on a 3 degrees glideslope if you multiple the DME with 300 it will give you a good estimation of what your altitude would be. Eg. 5 nm from the runway your altitude should be 5*300=1500ft AGL approximately. Multiply your GS by 5. It will give the RoD to maintain the 3 degrees glideslope. You're approaching with a GS of 140-> Your RoD should be 5x140=700fpm. You know that you're 12 nm out on a visual at 3000ft AGL and you want to figure out when to initiate your descent. Height/300 will you give  the DME at which you'll have to start descending on the 3 degrees path. In this example 3000/300=10nm. So now you know that in 2 miles you'll have to start descending with the RoD you calculated on the previous example.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]And if you want to fly us a visual, why don't you take a look at an ILS approach chart to see how high you have to put us at what distance?

I know what you guys gone say (ask for an ILS, go around....) but still.............[/quote]

It's a learning environment right? The controllers are also here to learn. And yes I will tell you that. Go around! Teach the controller. Tell him "I'm not stabilized, I came too high/fast". Next time he will get you in MUCH better.

[Harold Rutila]

I'm not really sure what happened in KDEN, but if you look at your flight log it appears you were given a visual approach. You established on a 5 mile final, which is 3 miles short of our typical intercept distance from the runway threshold.

[Thomas Flanary]

Erik,

Thank you for posting this, but let me take a second to explain how I do things in Miami. Assuming we're landing east (on the 8's and 9) then if you're coming from any direction but due west, you'll be descended to 4k or 6k and given the visual approach on the downwind for 9 or 8r.

This is well within the limits of your aircraft, and you may notice that even in real life, most commercial jets are on the speed brakes all the way down. They maybe not fully extended, but they're definitely out.

If you're coming from the due west, or south west, you'll usually see me give you a 45 or 50 degree intercept for 5 to 7 miles from the airport, and usually this is no more than 5,000 feet. Usually, I give the pilot the visual about 15 miles from the airport, they report it in sight, and then clear you for the approach. It is your job to line yourself up and be descending for the airport. You can either hold off till the last minute and descend, or begin descending immediately to the MEA/MVA/MSA, whichever appropriate, and then land.

Why do I give visual approaches? They're easier, I don't have to vector you all over the place to get you to the airport, I leave that up to you. If you want more room, you can have it, usually. If you wanted to make a short approach, you can do so.

If you're on the ILS, it can take 15 to 20 minutes extra to get lined up. And I assure you, I give you more than a reasonable amount of room to descend. Even by shorthand, if you're 15 miles from the airport, assuming you're in a beeline to it, you can descend from 8-10,000 no problem. And if you need too, you can extend your downwind or make S turns to do so further.

I hope this helps you understand this concept better.

-Tom Flanary
ZMA TA