VATNA Policy 0505

[J Jason Vodnansky]

Suggestion for anyone involved in a DCRM process...

Given that I know of at least one incident, there are likely more, that may be heading to DCRM.  I'd like to suggest to those people involved that a possible defense to be used, is to claim the following...


How can I be held to an INVALID rule?  Given that the rule does not comply with VATNA 0505, is it possible to be enforced at the DCRM, RCRP, or with the VP of Conflict Resolution?

VATNA Policy is quite clear on this topic, and years later, there are still no rules that exist below the Regional level within VATNA.  Why is it that VATSIM refuses to fix this simple issue?

Oh yeah, NO ACCOUNTABILITY!


Any other thoughts?
Jason Vodnansky

[Chris McGee]

When the general public such as myself has NO idea what the heck your talking about. What makes you think it's a suitable subject to post in the "General Discussion" forum? This is why I transfer out of the Chicago ARTCC...

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Oh yeah, NO MATURITY![/quote]

[Brad Littlejohn]

Suggestion for anyone involved in a DCRM process...

Given that I know of at least one incident, there are likely more, that may be heading to DCRM.  I'd like to suggest to those people involved that a possible defense to be used, is to claim the following...


How can I be held to an INVALID rule?  Given that the rule does not comply with VATNA 0505, is it possible to be enforced at the DCRM, RCRP, or with the VP of Conflict Resolution?

VATNA Policy is quite clear on this topic, and years later, there are still no rules that exist below the Regional level within VATNA.  Why is it that VATSIM refuses to fix this simple issue?

Oh yeah, NO ACCOUNTABILITY!


Any other thoughts?
Jason Vodnansky

Simple answer, Jason.

Instead of the same old song/dance grandstanding that you always do (and are doing yet again again again again again), how about doing something positive about it and applying for a position on the VATNA or VATSIM level. Then you will have the ability to fix it yourself.

In short, be part of the solution, not just a complainer about a problem that may or may not be there at all.

BL.

P.S. I'm very close to adding you to my ignore list just because of rants like these.

[J Jason Vodnansky]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]how about doing something positive about it and applying for a position on the VATNA or VATSIM level. Then you will have the ability to fix it yourself.[/quote]

Do you feel a single person can change it?

When the right position comes along at the right time, I will gladly apply.

Jason Vodnansky

[Brad Littlejohn]

Do you feel a single person can change it?

A wise man once said "One man can make a difference."

That man was Wilton Knight, on the pilot episode of Knight Rider. The show and character may be fictional, but that single line holds true in just about anything and everything today.

But only when you change  your thinking, will you be able to affect change or make a difference. And IMHO, your current type of thinking (read: the complaining and doing nothing about it) really isn't helping to affect any change or make a difference.

If there is a problem, we now notice it. It's acknowledged. Now let's do something about it. No need to rehash it up each and every time. It makes your cause just as annoying as the complaining you're doing.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]When the right position comes along at the right time, I will gladly apply.

Jason Vodnansky[/quote]

VATUSA1 is open. You want to make a difference? Apply for it.

BL.

[J Jason Vodnansky]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]VATUSA1 is open. You want to make a difference? Apply for it.[/quote]

I don't wish to "work" for an entity that refuses to fix their own policies so as to enable their subordinates to perform their duties.  Nor do I wish to work for an entity that refuses to hold accountable its people to the very rules that created this network.

In short, you have founders that are disinterested, an out of touch BoG, RD's that are out of control, DDs who can't go to the bathroom without permission, etc.  Not a network I wish to support by volunteering to perform any additional duties.  As far as contributing positively to the network.  I have contributed more than you will ever know.  Far less than some, far more than others...

JV

[Brad Littlejohn]

I don't wish to "work" for an entity that refuses to fix their own policies so as to enable their subordinates to perform their duties.  Nor do I wish to work for an entity that refuses to hold accountable its people to the very rules that created this network.

In short, you have founders that are disinterested, an out of touch BoG, RD's that are out of control, DDs who can't go to the bathroom without permission, etc.  Not a network I wish to support by volunteering to perform any additional duties.  As far as contributing positively to the network.  I have contributed more than you will ever know.  Far less than some, far more than others...

JV

Then simply put, If you don't want to take any action to fix a given problem, you really don't have any right to complain about it. It is akin to saying that your government sucks, yet you won't vote to affect any change in your government. Therefore, you reap what you sow.

You can't have it both ways: Complain about something being wrong, but then won't participate in making the changes. So it really boils down to a choice you need to make:

1. acknowledge your issue, apply for a position that can make the change, then do something about it (make the changes needed), or

2. Don't participate at all, and be quiet about your problems.

Seeing that you just chose the latter, you've lost all weight your opinion was buoyed on. Until you do something about it, no-one will take what you're saying seriously, leading back to the annoyance that I mentioned earlier.

I'll pose another thought for you: Perhaps it isn't VATUSA/VATNA/VATSIM that has the issue, but you do. Perhaps dealing with your problems might a better course of action for you.

BL.

[Bryan Wollenberg]

Jason, as I said, I am reviewing the policies and changes will be made in due time.  There is a lot going on at the USA level that I now need to take care of as well, and to be perfectly honest, making sure everything is running properly and smoothly at the USA level is FAR more important than a review of policies THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND WITHOUT COMPLAINT FOR YEARS.  I'm not sure why that answer isn't good enough for you, nor do I really care.  If I tell you it's going to get done, it's going to get done.

[Tommy Rogers]

I don't wish to "work" for an entity that refuses to fix their own policies so as to enable their subordinates to perform their duties.  Nor do I wish to work for an entity that refuses to hold accountable its people to the very rules that created this network.

In short, you have founders that are disinterested, an out of touch BoG, RD's that are out of control, DDs who can't go to the bathroom without permission, etc.  Not a network I wish to support by volunteering to perform any additional duties.  As far as contributing positively to the network.  I have contributed more than you will ever know.  Far less than some, far more than others...

JV

If you are so dissatisfied with the policies, the people and the organization and are not willing to do anything except to point fingers and bring distention among the rest of the people are doing their best for this hobby...I suggest that maybe you need to see that if this is the organization that you want to be a part of.

If you don't like it... nobody is holding you hostage here..

I'm just saying

[J Jason Vodnansky]

Brad,

Did you miss the whole part about my having contributed to this hobby?  What problems do I have to deal with?


Bryan,

"Without complaint for years"  You want to retract that, or shall I start producing evidence contrary to that statement?

JV

[Bryan Wollenberg]

Bryan,

"Without complaint for years"  You want to retract that, or shall I start producing evidence contrary to that statement?

JV

Jason, I don't care what contrary evidence you want to produce.  The policy has been in effect since Craig's time, or probably well before, and nothing has been done for years to fix it.  I'm sorry it has taken me a few weeks, but I said I'm going to take care of it and it will be taken care of.  You're not happy with any answer I give you, so it really doesn't matter.  The policies will be reviewed, deleted, added to in due time.  In the meantime, I have 33 VATSIM-related emails to answer today, 5 helpdesk requests, some issues related to the Oceanic Partnership, and a handful of Division/Region transfers to take care of.  Aside from that, I guess I'll just be sitting around doing nothing all day.

[Brad Littlejohn]

Brad,

Did you miss the whole part about my having contributed to this hobby?  What problems do I have to deal with?

JV

Did you miss the whole part about you not wishing to work for an entity that doesn't try to fix something or make it better?

Did you miss the part about my saying be part of the solution, not contribute to the problem?

Tommy pretty much nailed it, and Bryan reinforced it. If it was indeed an issue, why didn't you complain about it way back then, instead of pitching a stink over it now, when it may or may not directly affect you?

To be blunt, it sounds like someone is throwing a temper tantrum because they are not being listened to. How about we Let Bryan deal with it, and when he gets his chance, he will address your issues, if they need to be.

BL.

[J Jason Vodnansky]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Jason, I don't care what contrary evidence you want to produce. The policy has been in effect since Craig's time, or probably well before, and nothing has been done for years to fix it. I'm sorry it has taken me a few weeks, but I said I'm going to take care of it and it will be taken care of. You're not happy with any answer I give you, so it really doesn't matter. The policies will be reviewed, deleted, added to in due time. In the meantime, I have 33 VATSIM-related emails to answer today, 5 helpdesk requests, some issues related to the Oceanic Partnership, and a handful of Division/Region transfers to take care of. Aside from that, I guess I'll just be sitting around doing nothing all day.[/quote]

Excuses, Excuses. We in Chicago weren't allowed to use those excuse, and I am merely holding you to that same standard.  You promised something, and I am looking for delivery on that promise.  Sorry if you are upset that you have been caught yet again for not following the rules.

Let me have a look at the CoR again for the next topic...

JV

[Bryan Wollenberg]

Jason,

As I said, the promises will be fulfilled.  I have an awful lot on my plate at the moment, and editing a policy that has been in place for years is not on the top of my list of priorities.  I'm not going to continue to explain the same thing over and over and over and over to you.

Like the others have mentioned, maybe it's time for you to reexamine your involvement with the network.  You're not going to be happy with anything that takes place here.

We're done.