Question about FNO events

[Brin Brody]

...not a MONKEY who turns a dial, grabs the popcorn, and just WATCHES what's happening to him, screaming "WOOHOO!

So... The more excited controllers at FNOs? 

Is there a way to continue this discussion WITHOUT touching on pilot training in some way?  I know that's been a bit of a hot topic, and in my (limited) understanding, the answer thus far has been "no".

I'm all for simulating real ops - as long as we have both knowledgable controllers AND pilots.  Without both, it cannot possibly succeed.

[Ryan Geckler]

Is there a way to continue this discussion WITHOUT touching on pilot training in some way?  I know that's been a bit of a hot topic, and in my (limited) understanding, the answer thus far has been "no".

IMO, no. Events run smoother with better pilots, regardless of what operations are being simulated.

[Shane VanHoven]

Is there a way to continue this discussion WITHOUT touching on pilot training in some way?  I know that's been a bit of a hot topic, and in my (limited) understanding, the answer thus far has been "no".

IMO, no. Events run smoother with better pilots, regardless of what operations are being simulated.

Agreed, however, good pilots don't help if controllers still can't work them.

[Matthew Kosmoski]

The aircraft we have today, have taken away the need for basic understanding of what the procedure means. Saying that however, I think the average pilot does know how to 'push the right buttons' for lack of a better term,  to make the aircraft do what they want. They may not understand what it means, but they understand what button to push on the FMC.

Here is the second crux.  Automation does NOT replace the need for the pilot understanding.  Automation is merely a tool to reduce workload.  Pilots on VATSIM routinely have the automation do the wrong thing, and when we ask what they're doing, the universal reply is "my FMC is doing it!"

No, sir, you programmed it.  You're in command of the vessel.  Don't blame the platform for your misunderstanding.

[Toby Rice]

Flying /W, A, or U makes you appreciate that FMC or GPS. I wish more pilots understood how to fly.

[James Hiscoe]

Ironically flying /W all the time reveals how little some controllers have to deal with that. "Unable direct - DC9" throws a lot of them off it seems. I had more than one guy think I was somehow incompetent. "You got the default GPS right?" "No, just the VOR"

[Steven Perry]

This thread, threads like it, and many discussions I've heard on VATUSA facility teamspeaks disappoint me.  Controllers are openly critical of pilots, and sometimes outright hostile.  The way I read it and hear it, it goes beyond good-natured kidding.  And it's not coming just from the rank and file, but from people who are in official and unofficial positions of leadership.

For those who remember me from ca. 2005-2007, I used to be among the critical crowd.  Occasionally I slip up today and let my emotions get the better of me.  So I'm not without fault.

If I'm having a bad day, I will do my best to bite my tongue and try again tomorrow.  If I ever get to the point where I hate my pilots, I think it's time I take a long break.  I'll come back when controlling is fun again.   

The VATUSA family atmosphere needs to include pilots.

Members should, at all times, be courteous and respectful to one another.

Since this is a learning environment, there are times when a pilot may encounter a new air traffic controller who is in the process of learning his airspace and/or general air traffic control procedures. The same may be true of the controller who may find himself issuing ATC to a pilot flying online for the first time. Everyone should remember to exercise patience and courtesy to these new pilots and controllers.

[Kyle Ekas]

This thread, threads like it, and many discussions I've heard on VATUSA facility teamspeaks disappoint me.  Controllers are openly critical of pilots, and sometimes outright hostile.  The way I read it and hear it, it goes beyond good-natured kidding.  And it's not coming just from the rank and file, but from people who are in official and unofficial positions of leadership.

For those who remember me from ca. 2005-2007, I used to be among the critical crowd.  Occasionally I slip up today and let my emotions get the better of me.  So I'm not without fault.

If I'm having a bad day, I will do my best to bite my tongue and try again tomorrow.  If I ever get to the point where I hate my pilots, I think it's time I take a long break.  I'll come back when controlling is fun again.   

The VATUSA family atmosphere needs to include pilots.

Members should, at all times, be courteous and respectful to one another.

Since this is a learning environment, there are times when a pilot may encounter a new air traffic controller who is in the process of learning his airspace and/or general air traffic control procedures. The same may be true of the controller who may find himself issuing ATC to a pilot flying online for the first time. Everyone should remember to exercise patience and courtesy to these new pilots and controllers.

I agree with your sentiment, and largely think that us controllers DO feel a sort of "familyness" towards pilots. I think you may be misinterpreting what other controllers in this thread are trying to communicate. Controllers, at least in VATUSA, spend a lot of time learning and trying to "do it all right". We spend so much time learning and so much time attempting to perfect our controlling (to no avail of course because no one will ever be perfect), that when we see pilots who don't have that same drive that we do to learn everything there is to know about flying their airplane properly, well it can be a little disappointing.

I think the controllers of VATUSA are willing and ready for more knowledgeable pilots, but not all pilots desire that amount of detail out of their simulated experiences. With Controllers and Pilots, the relationship is one of "Yin and Yang" in a lot of respects.

K

[Steven Perry]

... I think you may be misinterpreting what other controllers in this thread are trying to communicate. ...

Communicating is what the listener does.

Much is lost in written conversation and maybe I misread some things.  Still your post reads very differently than some of the quotes I could pull from other contributions to this thread.

Thank you for offering up some positive and encouraging remarks!

Steve Perry

[Matthew Kosmoski]

I agree with your sentiment, and largely think that us controllers DO feel a sort of "familyness" towards pilots. I think you may be misinterpreting what other controllers in this thread are trying to communicate.

If this wasn't true, you wouldn't hear controllers spend so much time trying to help pilots understand what they filed, what's expected of them, and what they're doing.  I've heard (and spent) a lot of time helping pilots.

[Toby Rice]

Controllers, at least in VATUSA, spend a lot of time learning and trying to "do it all right". We spend so much time learning and so much time attempting to perfect our controlling (to no avail of course because no one will ever be perfect), that when we see pilots who don't have that same drive that we do to learn everything there is to know about flying their airplane properly, well it can be a little disappointing.

+1 million

[Kyle Ekas]

Communicating is what the listener does.

I'm sorry, wut? I think you may be mistaken on that. Communication is the act of 2 or more people exchanging information or ideas.

But yes, I think sometimes you hear acrimonious things on frequency from controllers. I think that is mostly a result of frustration or having a bad controlling day. We all have our good days and our not so good days, and we have to take the good with the bad.

If this wasn't true, you wouldn't hear controllers spend so much time trying to help pilots understand what they filed, what's expected of them, and what they're doing.  I've heard (and spent) a lot of time helping pilots.

^

K