Significant change to Taxi procedures coming effective 30 Jun 2010

[Matt Fuoco]

There's no way "taxi to" is the most misunderstood phrase, and there's no way "taxi via" would solve anything if that were the case.

You would be surprised.  I can't tell you the number of times I hear pilots asking if they are "clear to cross the inactive" after they have been given a "taxi to" instruction.   If I put myself in the FAA's shoes, by giving an explicit instruction to cross all runways removes ambiguity.  I don't know if it will work.  Just offering my $.02.

[Bryan Wollenberg]

You would be surprised.  I can't tell you the number of times I hear pilots asking if they are "clear to cross the inactive" after they have been given a "taxi to" instruction.

But how is that misunderstanding causing accidents or runway incursions?  It isn't.  The whole thing is a matter of becoming ICAO compliant, just like the position and hold phraseology.  Why we are deciding to go that way, I have no idea.

[Arthur Heiser]

It's the wussification of America is what it is. (insert p for w if you wish )

-ZZ

[Harold Rutila]

I just got this e-mail from the FAA. It does look like they are putting some responsibility on pilots to hold short of all runways, too. Note this message is for pilots, but I'm responding to the above comments about whether or not pilot regulations will be changed.
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--][size=]Runway Crossing Procedure Change[/size]

Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi route.

"Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an assigned take-off runway.

Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions to cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must have crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.

This applies to any runway, including inactive or closed runways.

Changes will also be made to the Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM) and AIP to reflect the new procedures.

Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions.
If in doubt ASK!

Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been:
    * instructed to cross that specific runway;
    * cleared to take off from that runway; or
    * instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.

See  https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/201...FAAST_Blast.pdf for the Runway Safety notice. Click this next link for a video of the change. http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/...3wPreloader.swf (You may have to copy and paste the links into your browser.)

For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety

Federal Aviation Administration
Air Traffic Organization
Office of Runway Safety
490 L'Enfant Plaza, SW, Suite 7225
Washington, DC  20024[/quote]

[Ryan Geckler]

I gotta say, I've been trying to get some practice with this phraseology on the network, and it's tough breaking a habit...

[Brad Littlejohn]

Which still poses the question. What if your assigned runway doesn't intersect any other runway?

before: XXX123, Taxi to runway 25R (via Charlie).

after: XXX123, Runway 25R, taxi via Charlie.

The former didn't need the taxiway assignment as it is implied that the taxiway you use gets you to 25R. The latter now explicitly requires the taxiway assignment. however, both still do not cross any other runway.

Additionally, what if you only have one runway at the field in question?

BL.

[Daniel Hawton]

Which still poses the question. What if your assigned runway doesn't intersect any other runway?

before: XXX123, Taxi to runway 25R (via Charlie).

after: XXX123, Runway 25R, taxi via Charlie.

The former didn't need the taxiway assignment as it is implied that the taxiway you use gets you to 25R. The latter now explicitly requires the taxiway assignment. however, both still do not cross any other runway.

Additionally, what if you only have one runway at the field in question?

BL.

You *always* say:

Runway (), taxi via ().  This goes into effect starting tomorrow.  Now, if you are taxiing aircraft and they are going to cross only one runway, the general consensus has been taxi them with "Runway 16 Center, taxi via B C, cross Runway 16 Left" assuming 16 Left is closed, inactive, or you have permission to cross them.. you do not have to hold them short of the runway all the time.  However, if the runway is active, it is best practice to NOT do that.

If there is no runway crossing between taxiing from ramp to runway,

Runway 3, taxi via A B C.

Taxiing to the ramp, standard phraseology applies:

Taxi to the ramp via Bravo.

[Harold Rutila]

Daniel,

What if you have to have an inbound aircraft taxi to the ramp, but he also has to hold short of a runway? Is it proper to say "Taxi to the ramp via A B C, hold short Runway 1?"

[Dhruv Kalra]

Daniel,

What if you have to have an inbound aircraft taxi to the ramp, but he also has to hold short of a runway? Is it proper to say "Taxi to the ramp via A B C, hold short Runway 1?"

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of 'Taxi to'? The whole point of 'Taxi to' was that you were allowed to cross anything and everything on the way to getting to where you were going. I'm suspecting that the inevitable 7110 revision will specify something like "Terminal ramp, taxi via A, B, C, hold short rwy ##"

[Matt Fuoco]

So....has anyone that's a pilot gotten the new instrcutions yet?  How about line-up and wait?  I have a flight tomorrow...so we shall see.

[Dhruv Kalra]

Line up and wait isn't enacted yet. I got a modified version of the instructions on a flight this morning. UND has an LOA specifying "Standard taxi" routes with Grand Forks Tower, so the exact control instructions up here were "Runway 17L, standard taxi" instead of "Standard taxi to runway 17L". The actual exchange, however, went something more like this:

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Me: "Grand Forks Ground, Sioux 9 on Charlie ramp, VFR to the Southeast, requesting traffic advisories with Mike."
GFK Ground: "Sioux 9, Grand Forks Ground, standard ta-...correction...runway 17L, standard taxi, squawk 0174."[/quote]

Nice to know we're not the only ones who are struggling with it!

[Ryan Geckler]

I've been hearing exchanges like that at all of the big airports that i've listened to... BOS, JFK, IAD, you name it.

[Harold Rutila]

No stutters from my local tower today. Go FNT!  

[Daniel Hawton]

Daniel,

What if you have to have an inbound aircraft taxi to the ramp, but he also has to hold short of a runway? Is it proper to say "Taxi to the ramp via A B C, hold short Runway 1?"

Yes, taxiing to the ramp is still "Taxi to the ramp/terminal/whatever via A, B, C hold short Runway 21." This phraseology change seems to only affect outbound taxiing.  However, inbound taxiing does not yet have any rules saying they must hold short or receive explicit instructions to hold short of a runway.

That being said, a loop hole allows you to cross one runway at a time, right?  So instead of automatically telling them to hold short of the first runway, my airfield implemented taxi instructions that include a crossing of the first inactive runway they will come across. For example:

Runway 7R, Taxi via F D A, cross runway 19.
or Runway 19, Taxi via F D B, cross runway 7 right, hold short runway 7 left.

It does save 1/2 a second doing it that way.. who knows if it is against the spirit of the new policy but it's unnecessary work at an airfield where the perpendicular runway cannot be used while the parallels are in use.

[Harold Rutila]

Are ground controllers allowed to issue crossing instructions now? Wasn't there a point in time where that wasn't allowed, and aircraft had to be with local control to cross? I don't have a lot of (VATSIM) experience with hold short instructions, since a vast majority of those in ZDV don't require aircraft to cross any runways. Just wondering.