vERAM Handoffs

Jacob Perez

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vERAM Handoffs
« on: March 13, 2016, 06:56:08 pm »
Does anybody else run into the problem on VRC when they go to give a handoff to somebody using vERAM that it always immediately refuses the H/O? Am I doing something wrong?
Jacob Perez - JP
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Kenneth Haught

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2016, 04:13:30 am »
I haven't had any reports of this from my guys, it could be an issue where the person using vERAM is not accepting it correctly and is cancelling it instead. That would be my guess at least.

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Jacob Perez

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2016, 05:29:55 am »
I'd be inclined to agree with you Ken, except it is so instantaneous that there is no way anybody could have the time to refuse the H/O.
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Matt Bozwood-Davies

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2016, 06:51:42 am »
I remember hearing something from a ZMA controller that if you hand-off too early, it will reject it as they are too far outside of the airspace? Don't quote that though but I found handing off somewhere between 5 and 10 miles is a good work around over the 20-30 I normally work with
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Josh Glottmann

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2016, 09:36:38 am »
You should (if you can attempt a handoff) have the aircraft in your radar range. Unless the controller who you are handing off to is well outside their range, you *should* be able to handoff normally.

Jacob Perez

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2016, 10:08:04 am »
My typical range is about 10-15 miles, it may be a little on the early side we all know how well waiting until last minute goes .
Jacob Perez - JP
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Kenneth Haught

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2016, 11:52:11 am »
You should (if you can attempt a handoff) have the aircraft in your radar range. Unless the controller who you are handing off to is well outside their range, you *should* be able to handoff normally.

This could be what's happening actually, is that the pilot is not with either the visibility range or radar coverage range on vERAM. Just another hypothesis. Is it happening in a certain area all the time or is it scattered across the enroute controller's airspace? If you can coordinate with the controller have them use the "showradar" command prior to you sending it or see if they can see the target prior to attempting the transfer.

Anchorage Deputy Air Traffic Manager
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Jacob Perez

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 04:23:52 pm »
It was happening all along DC's boarder specifically. I have no idea how to begin using vERAM so I am in the dark here. I will keep fiddling with things on my end. On a side note, I also forgot to mention when he goes to hand off AC that I get the noise in VRC but they do not light up blue as normal, instead they just appear as if nobody is tracking them.
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Josh Glottmann

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 05:17:32 pm »
You're probably not in his vis/radar range.
Although it's unrealistic, I gave one of my radars a very large range so I don't really lose coverage within 30-40 nm of my borders.

Rick Rump

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 07:55:57 pm »
Yeah I did not have my radar set for down there, my bad. Good practice on manual H/Os though :)

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Jacob Perez

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2016, 08:01:03 pm »
That's good to know Rick. Thank you. Maybe I should just make the switch? ha!
Jacob Perez - JP
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Dhruv Kalra

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 08:48:24 am »
Most centers are able to see at least 50-80nm into adjacent airspace. At the Enroute level, assuming aircraft are clear of conflict, I'm starting the handoff process anywhere between 4-6 minutes flying time from the border (figure jets in cruise do anywhere from 6-10 miles a minute), so that's a range of about 25-60 miles from the border. I'll do my best to have the guy on the receiving sector's frequency no later than 1 minute from the border, preferably 2.

Holding onto a handoff until the last possible minute is just asking for airspace busts, which I don't think many people on here realize is a separation error the same as getting two planes within conflict proximity :p.
Dhruv Kalra
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Wesley Miles

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 10:38:43 am »
Most centers are able to see at least 50-80nm into adjacent airspace. At the Enroute level, assuming aircraft are clear of conflict, I'm starting the handoff process anywhere between 4-6 minutes flying time from the border (figure jets in cruise do anywhere from 6-10 miles a minute), so that's a range of about 25-60 miles from the border. I'll do my best to have the guy on the receiving sector's frequency no later than 1 minute from the border, preferably 2.

Holding onto a handoff until the last possible minute is just asking for airspace busts, which I don't think many people on here realize is a separation error the same as getting two planes within conflict proximity :p.

What Dhruv said.  ;)   Modify your radar range if you have to.  Realistically, waiting until 10 miles from the boundary will get you into some trouble.
Wes Miles
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Jacob Perez

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Re: vERAM Handoffs
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 04:13:10 pm »
Most centers are able to see at least 50-80nm into adjacent airspace. At the Enroute level, assuming aircraft are clear of conflict, I'm starting the handoff process anywhere between 4-6 minutes flying time from the border (figure jets in cruise do anywhere from 6-10 miles a minute), so that's a range of about 25-60 miles from the border. I'll do my best to have the guy on the receiving sector's frequency no later than 1 minute from the border, preferably 2.

Holding onto a handoff until the last possible minute is just asking for airspace busts, which I don't think many people on here realize is a separation error the same as getting two planes within conflict proximity :p.

What Dhruv said.  ;)   Modify your radar range if you have to.  Realistically, waiting until 10 miles from the boundary will get you into some trouble.

Don't I know it ;)
Jacob Perez - JP
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