Shortcuts

[Don Desfosse]

THE SOP DOESN'T SAY THAT!" :-)

That one ranks right up there with "that fix isn't on my flight plan" (heard often from the children of the magenta line)...

[Matthew Kosmoski]

THE SOP DOESN'T SAY THAT!" :-)

That one ranks right up there with "that fix isn't on my flight plan" (heard often from the children of the magenta line)...

And "Say again" from a /t

[Toby Rice]

And "Say again" from a /t

Oh please. This though... 

[Ryan Geckler]

The appropriate answer to that question is "read again".

[Matthew Kosmoski]

The appropriate answer to that question is "read again".

As much as I may think it, I can't do that to a pilot.

[Brad Littlejohn]

"anything can happen with coordination"

People seem to forget this.  "THE SOP DOESN'T SAY THAT!" :-)

Ahh, but the perfect counter: Shortcuts aren't SOP!

BL.

[Matthew Kosmoski]

Ahh, but the perfect counter: Shortcuts aren't SOP!

BL.

Agreed.  I've been trying to emphasize the fact that the S stands for standard.

[Shane VanHoven]

Ahh, but the perfect counter: Shortcuts aren't SOP!

BL.

Agreed.  I've been trying to emphasize the fact that the S stands for standard.

Are you saying that you've NEVER coordinated something that doesn't follow the SOP 100%?

[Matthew Kosmoski]

Ahh, but the perfect counter: Shortcuts aren't SOP!

BL.

Agreed.  I've been trying to emphasize the fact that the S stands for standard.

Are you saying that you've NEVER coordinated something that doesn't follow the SOP 100%?

I coordinate non-standard things all the time!

I'm saying you can coordinate anything -- The SOP only covers "standard" ops.  You can do anything you want, but non-standard must be coordinated.  There should not be any limitations on coordinated operational deviations from standards.

[Brad Littlejohn]

Ahh, but the perfect counter: Shortcuts aren't SOP!

BL.

Agreed.  I've been trying to emphasize the fact that the S stands for standard.

Are you saying that you've NEVER coordinated something that doesn't follow the SOP 100%?

Let's answer this with another question. Are shortcuts SOP? And who sad everything done is always done in accordance to SOP?

SOPs are exactly that: Standard Procedures, meaning "Normal". Shortcuts are not normal, and will require coordination for something that isn't part of SOP. That's why by nature we have coordination. we APREQ for the request, and if we get it from the various affected sectors, we clear the aircraft for their shortcut.

In a sense, that is part of SOP. We coordinate, which coordination is part of SOP. The routing of the aircraft wanting the request would not be part of SOP outside of by the time they are at the Center level, they are already flying the bulk of their SID in question, and are just looking for a more direct route to the STAR in question instead of the route they filed. That really is no different than rerouting them when they are already en route.

All in all, it's a plus for all of us: Saves us time from keeping them on a route that could take longer in your sector and easing your traffic flow, and saves them time for having a shorter more direct route, plus if RW, saves them fuel.

There's bonuses all around for doing this, and again, not everything will follow SOP, which is why we have standard procedures. This is something outside the norm on that, and even with that, can be coordinated with various sectors to accommodate.

BL.

[Dhruv Kalra]

Shortcuts don’t need to be APREQ’d unless they’re a direct violation of an SOP/LOA. I can guarantee you that ZMP10 doesn’t call every sector between themselves and MLP before issuing it to a MSP-SEA flight.

BL, if ZLC wants to send a guy from over BCE Direct HEC or HAKMN for the RIIVR or ANJLL STAR, would you expect it to be APREQ’d? I’d understand if they wanted to send a guy direct GRAMM or ANJLL then it’d be a different issue, but further out than that the expectation in the field is generally that amendment of the route string constitutes coordination.

I’ve personally been Cleared Direct SBJ by ZAU from just east of SBN landing KTEB before, even though there’s not a snowball’s chance in Hades that it’ll stick. And lo and behold, you get onto a ZOB or ZNY frequency, and without fail you’ll hear “I have routing to KTEB, Advise when ready to copy.”

There’s really no need to get wrapped around the axle about this. Issue shortcuts that aren’t going to be stupid. I’ll happily clear direct HEC/MVA/OAL/MLP/etc. from halfway across the country, but wouldn’t even consider issuing direct GRAMM/CEDES/ANJLL/whatever. Conversely, if I get an airplane into my airspace that I need to put on an LOA compliant routing, I will do so or a reasonable approximation thereof that I can coordinate.

[Brad Littlejohn]

Shortcuts don’t need to be APREQ’d unless they’re a direct violation of an SOP/LOA. I can guarantee you that ZMP10 doesn’t call every sector between themselves and MLP before issuing it to a MSP-SEA flight.

BL, if ZLC wants to send a guy from over BCE Direct HEC or HAKMN for the RIIVR or ANJLL STAR, would you expect it to be APREQ’d? I’d understand if they wanted to send a guy direct GRAMM or ANJLL then it’d be a different issue, but further out than that the expectation in the field is generally that amendment of the route string constitutes coordination.

I’ve personally been Cleared Direct SBJ from just east of SBN landing KTEB before, even though there’s not a snowball’s chance in Hades that it’ll stick. And lo and behold, you get onto a ZOB or ZNY frequency, and without fail you’ll hear “I have routing to KTEB, Advise when ready to copy.”

There’s really no need to get wrapped around the axle about this. Issue shortcuts that aren’t going to be stupid. I’ll happily clear direct HEC/MVA/OAL/MLP/etc. from halfway across the country, but wouldn’t even consider issuing direct GRAMM/CEDES/ANJLL/whatever. Conversely, if I get an airplane into my airspace that I need to put on an LOA compliant routing, I will do so or a reasonable approximation thereof that I can coordinate.

I don't expect the APREQ you're asking about, because what you're asking for is directly on the routing/airway that they already filed. But if I have an aircraft that is taking the southern route from LAX to JFK before cutting up north, there's the chance that I can create that shortcut by taking them directly to a point on that northward routing, I could give them that, bypassing the route that they've filed and saving them fuel the entire time.

What we don't know is how traffic will be in the sector having the fix or waypoint that we are clearing them to, hence the APREQ with the appropriate sectors so they know what to expect from an aircraft coming to them further along their route than they would expect them. So in this sense, I'm not using any APREQ to get their approval for clearing the aircraft on a shortcut; I'm using APREQ as a heads up, saying "You're having this aircraft coming to you direct this waypoint. If you'd like them re-routed, re-route them, otherwise, you'll need to factor it into your flows."

BL.