7110.65 Change to 3-7-2: Taxi and Ground Movement Operations

[Shane VanHoven]

Hey all,

At the following link you will find a change to 3-7-2 of the 7110.65.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/JO_7110.65X_Air_Traffic_Control_CHG_1.pdf

Effective March 29th, whenever taxi routes must cross a runway, you may only give the route up to the hold short. Then continue the rest of the route after the runway crossing instruction.

Yay, moar words! Just thought I'd pass along the information in case anyone wants to implement it.

-SQ

[Daniel Everman]

I'm still using "taxi to" phraseology. How does this effect me?

[Nick Warren]

Reading the full text of 3-7-2, I'm not seeing a whole lot of deviation from current procedure.  I realize it is, and what is in the changelog, but the full text still specifies allotment for "Runway 20, taxi via J M, cross runway 12" as an example.

[Shane VanHoven]

Reading the full text of 3-7-2, I'm not seeing a whole lot of deviation from current procedure.  I realize it is, and what is in the changelog, but the full text still specifies allotment for "Runway 20, taxi via J M, cross runway 12" as an example.

Correct. This only applies if you have to hold an aircraft short of the runway. (or intend to at least.)

Example. "Runway 20 taxi via J M, hold short of runway 12."
Then when the aircraft comes to the runway: "Cross runway 12, taxi via D, A."

As opposed to "Runway 20 taxi via J, M, D, A, hold short of runway 12 at txwy M."

[Shane VanHoven]

I'm still using "taxi to" phraseology. How does this effect me?

You mean like "Taxi to position and hold" ?

[Daniel Everman]

I'm still using "taxi to" phraseology. How does this effect me?

You mean like "Taxi to position and hold" ?

Uh...I plead the fifth

[Nick Warren]

Okay.  I see the intent.  Outbound taxi from the ground controller would seem to be more affected, as a local controller would be doing that anyway, just with the instruction to contact ground after the crossing.  Thanks for the info.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/JO_7110.65X_Air_Traffic_Control_CHG_1.pdf
Effective March 29th, whenever taxi routes must cross a runway, you may only give the route up to the hold short. Then continue the rest of the route after the runway crossing instruction.

Hey Shane, I'm definitely not the expert -- but after reading both the change summary and the revised section, it sounds like it's only required (and I quote) "when a runway hold short instruction is required."  It does give this as a valid example: “Runway Three−Six Left, taxi via Charlie, cross Runway Two−Seven Left, hold short of Runway Two−Seven Right.”  So if holding me short of 27L isn't required it sounds like it's okay to give that to me all at once.  Your thoughts?

On the other hand, it does sound like you aren't allowed to give multiple runway crossings in the same taxi instruction anymore: "Issue a crossing clearance to aircraft for each runway their route crosses. An aircraft must have crossed a previous runway before another runway crossing clearance may be issued."  So, fun!

[Mark Hubbert]

"YOU GOTTA KEEP EM SEPARATED"

[Shane VanHoven]

Hey Shane, I'm definitely not the expert -- but after reading both the change summary and the revised section, it sounds like it's only required (and I quote) "when a runway hold short instruction is required."  It does give this as a valid example: “Runway Three−Six Left, taxi via Charlie, cross Runway Two−Seven Left, hold short of Runway Two−Seven Right.”  So if holding me short of 27L isn't required it sounds like it's okay to give that to me all at once.  Your thoughts?

Well you can't cross two runways at in one instruction, so you'd still be required to hold them short of 12L. So whenever a hold short is required, you can only give taxiways up until that hold point. Then after you cross them, you can give the rest of the taxi route.

On the other hand, it does sound like you aren't allowed to give multiple runway crossings in the same taxi instruction anymore: "Issue a crossing clearance to aircraft for each runway their route crosses. An aircraft must have crossed a previous runway before another runway crossing clearance may be issued."  So, fun!

You were never allowed to do that unless the runways are 1300' apart or less AND the facility has a waver from the FAA.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

it does sound like you aren't allowed to give multiple runway crossings in the same taxi instruction anymore:

You were never allowed to do that unless the runways are 1300' apart or less AND the facility has a waver from the FAA.

Ah.  Okay.  I was going to say, I've definitely heard it done -- but the noted exceptions probably applied.

Very informative for us non-ATC guys too, sir.  Thank you!

[James Hiscoe]

Strangely I've always given my taxi instructions this way just because of VATSIM pilots being exceptional at hearing what they want to hear and ignoring the rest, that and runway crossings at MSP (the only place I've ever really done anything) tend to involve a transfer of control to tower when they're departing. I witnessed 2 runway incursions a couple events ago when I had the luxury of monitoring without having a fixed role at the start of the event and the full taxi instructions past the hold short seemed to encourage not holding short.

I also noticed that it wasn't 1300 feet between centrelines until 7110.65X, as the W only says 1000 feet. I wonder if that means I can use Delta at MSP to give the ole' multi runway crossing instruction now.

[Shane VanHoven]

I also noticed that it wasn't 1300 feet between centrelines until 7110.65X, as the W only says 1000 feet. I wonder if that means I can use Delta at MSP to give the ole' multi runway crossing instruction now.

Well we'd still have to wait for the FAA to give them the waver... so even if the centerlines are within 1300, it'll take a year for the waver lol!

[Frank Louis Miller]

It would be helpful for VATUSA to give a blanket waiver to allow any ARTCC that wishes to permit controllers to authorise multiple runway crossings (where centrelines are 1300’ or less) to conduct ground operations in that way.  IRL, my home field is St Augustine (KSGJ) and the cab controllers complain periodically about having to authorise crossings for the two small runways that cross the main taxiway because they are 25 feet too far apart for the multiple crossing instruction!  Now they’ll have to say “cross 6, hold short of 2..... cross 2, continue on Bravo.....”..... MOAR WORDS INDEED!

Perhaps one of the VATUSA folks can sort this so ARTCCs can train accordingly?

Frank

[Daniel Hawton]

It would be helpful for VATUSA to give a blanket waiver to allow any ARTCC that wishes to permit controllers to authorise multiple runway crossings (where centrelines are 1300’ or less) to conduct ground operations in that way.  IRL, my home field is St Augustine (KSGJ) and the cab controllers complain periodically about having to authorise crossings for the two small runways that cross the main taxiway because they are 25 feet too far apart for the multiple crossing instruction!  Now they’ll have to say “cross 6, hold short of 2..... cross 2, continue on Bravo.....”..... MOAR WORDS INDEED!

Perhaps one of the VATUSA folks can sort this so ARTCCs can train accordingly?

Frank

Facilities write procedures, VATUSA approves it.  Not the other way around. Contact your facility for more information.