We don't talk enough...

Shane VanHoven

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2018, 04:50:26 pm »
I had neighbors that accused me of being a cert factory -- and now that we all spend time together, that's an accusation of a bygone era.

Ehhhhh not so sure about that.

<16:17:20> "Matthew Kosmoski": !lastseen *vanhoven*
<16:17:20> "ZHUBot": No clients found in the database!

Sorry, I don't speak gibberish.
Shane VanHoven
Minneapolis ARTCC, VATUSA ACE Team | Instructor
Private pilot, Instrument, ASEL
FAA Air Traffic Developmental, Terminal

Dhruv Kalra

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2018, 04:52:26 pm »
I don’t need to spend time in a facility’s TeamSpeak/Discord to take the pulse of its training program. I can get that by flying through or participating in an event, and by perceiving the overall attitude.

We’re teaching a continuing education seminar on sequencing and spacing tomorrow in an attempt to help share best practices and techniques. Guess how many ZHU participants we have?

It’s easy to sit and whine about resources not being shared, but when those of us that have the real-world experience who want to give back and improve the product on the network get snubbed for offering constructive methods for improvement, it kind of kills the motivation for us to do it.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 08:55:52 pm by Dhruv Kalra »
Dhruv Kalra
ZMP ATM | Instructor | Grumpy Old Man

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2018, 04:55:41 pm »
I had neighbors that accused me of being a cert factory -- and now that we all spend time together, that's an accusation of a bygone era.

Ehhhhh not so sure about that.

<16:17:20> "Matthew Kosmoski": !lastseen *vanhoven*
<16:17:20> "ZHUBot": No clients found in the database!

Sorry, I don't speak gibberish.

You've never been in our Teamspeak (at least in the past year, which is how old the client database is), so you're demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about.
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2018, 04:56:19 pm »
I don’t need to spend time in a facility’s Discord to take the pulse of its training program. I can get that by flying through or participating in an event, and by perceiving the overall attitude.

We’re teaching a continuing education seminar on sequencing and spacing tomorrow in an attempt to help share best practices and techniques. Guess how many ZHU participants we have?

It’s easy to sit and whine about resources not being shared, but when those of us that have the real-world experience who want to give back and improve the product on the network get snubbed for offering constructive methods for improvement, it kind of kills the motivation for us to do it.

My guys generally know about the class, but it doesn't mean that they necessarily have availability.
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org

Shane VanHoven

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2018, 05:18:38 pm »
I had neighbors that accused me of being a cert factory -- and now that we all spend time together, that's an accusation of a bygone era.

Ehhhhh not so sure about that.

<16:17:20> "Matthew Kosmoski": !lastseen *vanhoven*
<16:17:20> "ZHUBot": No clients found in the database!

Sorry, I don't speak gibberish.

You've never been in our Teamspeak (at least in the past year, which is how old the client database is), so you're demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't understand how my attendance in your teamspeak has anything to do with how easy it is for someone to checkout at ZHU.
Shane VanHoven
Minneapolis ARTCC, VATUSA ACE Team | Instructor
Private pilot, Instrument, ASEL
FAA Air Traffic Developmental, Terminal

Ryan Barnes

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2018, 06:27:30 pm »
One reason I believe the ZHU community didn't bother with the whole class thing was simply they didn't care that much to attend it. The community at ZHU is very relaxed, most controllers put in their hour a month wait for the website to reset the time. That being said most of them don't need the extra training. We also understand it's a hobby about a multiplayer "video game." I think of the training part being the level up. And once you reach C1, you have finished the game for lack of better term. Now the way I think of the 1 hour requirement is like the occasional return to play it for the fun aspect. Most C1's at ZHU have reached the max level and don't desire to be better or learn extra stuff.
ZHU Facility Engineer C1

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2018, 07:06:33 pm »
I don't understand how my attendance in your teamspeak has anything to do with how easy it is for someone to checkout at ZHU.

The point is that you have no exposure to the process, nor any knowledge of the people involved, so it's assumption, rumor, and knitting-circle conversation.

This is one of the largest cultural problems we have in VATUSA.

The more we talk, the less of a problem this becomes.  Vento is right in his point that we don't talk enough, and you're demonstrating one of the larger issues.

Edit:  In order to make this slightly more constructive and productive, as I said before, our doors are open for any Q&A.
 If you'd like to understand our process more, I'd love to help you out.  If that particular method doesn't sound good to you, you can also email me, or contact me via any other suitable method.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 07:16:48 pm by Matthew Kosmoski »
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org

Dhruv Kalra

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2018, 07:19:31 pm »
One reason I believe the ZHU community didn't bother with the whole class thing was simply they didn't care that much to attend it. The community at ZHU is very relaxed, most controllers put in their hour a month wait for the website to reset the time. That being said most of them don't need the extra training. We also understand it's a hobby about a multiplayer "video game." I think of the training part being the level up. And once you reach C1, you have finished the game for lack of better term. Now the way I think of the 1 hour requirement is like the occasional return to play it for the fun aspect. Most C1's at ZHU have reached the max level and don't desire to be better or learn extra stuff.

I’m glad you’re secure in your mediocrity. Some of us still care to improve past the bare minimum.

Also, being “relaxed” and being proficient aren’t mutually exclusive.
Dhruv Kalra
ZMP ATM | Instructor | Grumpy Old Man

Shane VanHoven

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2018, 07:23:44 pm »
Most C1's at ZHU have reached the max level.

Then how come the last time I flew into a ZHU event I was forgotten about on the downwind and flew all the way to new orleans before anyone decided to try to get ahold of me?
Shane VanHoven
Minneapolis ARTCC, VATUSA ACE Team | Instructor
Private pilot, Instrument, ASEL
FAA Air Traffic Developmental, Terminal

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2018, 07:27:05 pm »
I’m glad you’re secure in your mediocrity. Some of us still care to improve past the bare minimum.

Please do not speak to my guys like that; It's disrespectful.
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org

Dhruv Kalra

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2018, 07:31:06 pm »
Please do not speak to my guys like that; It's disrespectful.

No less disrespectful than complaining that we don’t share resources and then turning your nose up when someone offers to volunteer their time to help you get better.
Dhruv Kalra
ZMP ATM | Instructor | Grumpy Old Man

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2018, 07:34:46 pm »
No less disrespectful than complaining that we don’t share resources and then turning your nose up when someone offers to volunteer their time to help you get better.

Who has turned their nose up, exactly, and how?  I can't make folks sign up.  This comes second to any real world obligations, and we should all respect that.  It doesn't make anybody less valuable to the VATUSA team, though, and to insinuate otherwise is a gross misrepresentation.  I'm glad y'all got the sign-up numbers you did.  The optional advanced training is a great concept and I hope it continues.
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org

Dhruv Kalra

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2018, 07:40:01 pm »
Who has turned their nose up, exactly, and how?

A member of your staff says “Most C1s at ZHU have reached the max level and don’t desire to be better or learn extra stuff.” How much more black and white evidence do you require? If you want to talk about culture, tell me that’s not a stark indication of a culture. The real world always comes first. I say that to every single member of my facility at least a handful of times during their time with us. The attitude presented above, however, speaks to a lack of drive to show up vs. an inability to do so.
Dhruv Kalra
ZMP ATM | Instructor | Grumpy Old Man

Ryan Geckler

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2018, 07:40:30 pm »
Who has turned their nose up, exactly, and how? 


One reason I believe the ZHU community didn't bother with the whole class thing was simply they didn't care that much to attend it.
Ryan Geckler - GK
Former VATUSA3 | Division Training Director
Minneapolis ARTCC | RW Miami ARTCC

Ira Robinson

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Re: We don't talk enough...
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2018, 07:52:23 pm »
Okay folks, I understand how a discussion that addresses the difference between the "as real as" and the "it's only a hobby" and "it's only a game" people might be beneficial to the topic at hand, but nobody here needs to hear me suggest that we may have strayed a bit. So why don't we get this back on topic if you please. 


Thank you.
Ira Robinson
VATUSA4