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Luke Kolin

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« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2010, 08:28:13 PM »
Quote from: Richard Jenkins
Here's an idea. What about a payware version pilot client. Somewhat like the vroute model. You get the basic thing for free, but if you wnat extra toys, you pay?

Great idea. Once the Founders endorse such a model I'll get right to work on it. My job sucks anyways.

Cheers!

Luke

Richard Jenkins

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« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2010, 08:30:00 PM »
Quote from: Luke Kolin
Great idea. Once the Founders endorse such a model I'll get right to work on it. My job sucks anyways.

Cheers!

Luke

Intriguing isn't it.....
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 08:30:17 PM by Richard Jenkins »

Paul Byrne

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« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2010, 08:30:04 PM »
If it worked as advertised and the freeware version had no network limitations, I wouldn't have a problem with that. In fact, being (self described) a hardcore VATSIMmer, I would probably buy the payware version to support the developer and VATSIM.

vroute has already set the precedent.

Cheers!

Michael Hodge Jr

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« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2010, 08:36:59 PM »
Quote from: Alex Bailey
Send me an email/PM if you'd like to hear about it, forum is no place. As for the true issue here, the amount of staff at the division and local level is NOT the reason for all of these issues and shouldn't even be looked at until the upper management fix their problems. VATUSA staff are leaving because of this, and we're talking qualified managers who put their heart into this organization are now leaving. This should send a clear message, and no matter how hard it is to admit the problem and work to fix it - the Founders and BoG must drop the politics and the attitude towards its members and do a better job of calculating decisions and managing the network. You can reject ideas without insulting the well-intentioned VATSIM member who wants to see this place succeed.

Amen!!!

You've pretty much hit the nail square on it's head.

Luke Kolin

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« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2010, 08:47:39 PM »
Quote from: Richard Jenkins
Intriguing isn't it.....

If I thought you were serious....

Cheers!

Luke

Richard Jenkins

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« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2010, 08:57:10 PM »
Quote from: Michael Hodge Jr
Amen!!!

You've pretty much hit the nail square on it's head.

I'd be the first to agree information flow is lacking. I quickly read Andrew's resignation and found some distrubing things in it. From a Founders perspective I am troubled by the apathy many staff have from the top to the bottom in just ensuring the day to day things are done to keep the trains running.

I function in a world of measures in my real job. I apply those measures, quietly, to VATSIM. I don't make them public and I generally don't discuss them. Rest assured though the stink in this place goes all the way to the bottom and to the top. Are there Founders that are apathetic? Yes. Are there BoG members that are out of touch with parts of VATSIM. Yes. Are there RD's that do the absolute minimum. Yes. Are there division directors that don't show up for work? Yes. Are there facility directors that build little kingdoms. Yes.

So as we're throwing the poo tonight. Let's take a good look around. Because people do talk to me when I go online and there are facility people that bark just as loud and nasty about division staff. It's the nature of the beast around here. It's not unique to VATUSA.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 08:58:02 PM by Richard Jenkins »

Paul Byrne

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« Reply #96 on: February 10, 2010, 09:02:00 PM »
Hi Richard,

Completely agree. I, like you live by a few simple rules. One of them is this: You have to lead by example. This has to come from the top down.

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Brian Pryor

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« Reply #97 on: February 10, 2010, 09:13:00 PM »
Quote from: Paul Byrne
Hi Richard,

Completely agree. I, like you live by a few simple rules. One of them is this: You have to lead by example. This has to come from the top down.

Cheers!

And in my experience and teachings, good leaders don't abandon the ship when the weather turns bad above them...

Luke Kolin

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« Reply #98 on: February 10, 2010, 09:15:55 PM »
Quote from: Paul Byrne
You have to lead by example. This has to come from the top down.

QFT.

Cheers!

Luke

Brian Sperduto

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« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2010, 09:21:27 PM »
Quote from: Brian Pryor
And in my experience and teachings, good leaders don't abandon the ship when the weather turns bad above them...
I'm sorry but if that is some underhanded dig at those VATUSA staff members who just quit that was completely inappropriate.

Andrew Podner

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« Reply #100 on: February 10, 2010, 09:22:40 PM »
That is all well and good, and I understand you can't change the world overnight, nobody would reasonably expect such. But none of that excuses rudeness or treating members like second class citizens when they disagree with the company line.  When that attitude comes out of the leadership, there is a problem that goes way beyond the mechanics of policies.  Until that changes, everything else is just fluff.

There are people that have violated the trust of their position repeatedly only to get promoted later.  I have seen polices and procedures completely blown off at the highest level, and then turned right back around and thrown in someone's face later on.  You cannot beat someone up with the CoC and CoR and then ignore it later on because in one person's judgment following the rules would not have changed the outcome of the situation, it reeks of hypocrisy.   You can't have a healthy network when the offenders have more rights than the people trying to get positive things done.

That is the kind of thing that drives people off.  It doesn't matter whether you have constructed an elitist leadership or not.  If people perceive it to be elitist because of its actions, or not following its own rules, then it might as well be elitist by design.

I would challenge every single Founder, BoG and EC member to this......walk a mile as an DD, ATM, or TA for 60 days in the VATSIM of 2010.  Not just observing it......take the position, own it, see what it is like to navigate the waters of dealing with problem members, frivolous complaints, moving targets, unknown rules, thin instruction staffing, transfers, inactives, making up meanings for ratings, trying to determine the intent of a policy, getting your own policies approved, and a thick bureaucracy of people telling you all the things you can't do, but never trying to help you figure out what you can do.  

But the number 1 thing to start with is this:  The membership and staff of an organization is reflective of its leadership.  When the leadership acts dismissive, sarcastic, or rudely......well you get the picture.

my .02

Michael Hodge Jr

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« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2010, 09:29:43 PM »
Richard,

It's all about perception. While USA3, I made a very conscience effort to try to stay on top of how I was perceived. Not by the people above me so much as the people below me. After all, I had 22 TA's looking up to me for advice, guidance, and suggestions, and if they felt like I was working against them as opposed to for them, then we would never get anything constructive accomplished. I was there to help them, not micromanage them. I was there to support them and assist when they needed. That's all my job entailed. The sad part is, is that there are some, myself included, that honestly feel as though the BOG/EC is working against them as opposed to for them.

Now we all know there are those staff members that don't do anything productive. We all know they shouldn't have the opportunity to hold some of the titles that they do, but they do, and for the most part, we can't change that. However, when the politics of this virtual organization get to the point where it's pushing the good people out of positions, then obviously it's an issue that should be looked at and addressed.

Respectfully,

-Mike

Brian Pryor

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« Reply #102 on: February 10, 2010, 09:32:27 PM »
Quote from: Brian Sperduto
I'm sorry but if that is some underhanded dig at those VATUSA staff members who just quit that was completely inappropriate.

It was not intended to be a dig at anyone, it's a statement of my principles i've been taught as a leader and been in similiar wording through several leadership seminars.

The previous administration did plenty of good things for VATUSA and VATSIM, however what we needed then and now need more than ever is stability. This past administration with no disrespect, has not accomplished that task and further plagued us with instability.

While their intent is to enact change, whether that happens now or later, the members of VATUSA suffer now in the void these folks have left behind.

Michael Hodge Jr

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« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2010, 09:34:57 PM »
There will never be stability unless you fix the underlying problem.

Luke Kolin

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« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2010, 09:36:57 PM »
Quote from: Brian Pryor
While their intent is to enact change, whether that happens now or later, the members of VATUSA suffer now in the void these folks have left behind.

I'm more surprised that they took the job in the first place - they're not the first VATUSA staff members to flame out and resign after a few months, and they won't be the last.

Luke