VATNA Website Question

[J Jason Vodnansky]

When will the VATNA website comply with requirements of the Code of Regulations?  Better yet, why wasn't it set up in compliance with the CoR?

It seems that following the rules still is optional in VATSIM, or shall we call it "selective enforcement"?


Regards,
Jason Vodnansky

[Bryan Wollenberg]

When will the VATNA website comply with requirements of the Code of Regulations?  Better yet, why wasn't it set up in compliance with the CoR?

It seems that following the rules still is optional in VATSIM, or shall we call it "selective enforcement"?


Regards,
Jason Vodnansky

No, no selective enforcement.  Andrew and I thought we covered everything we were supposed to when he originally designed it.  If you enlighten me on what is missing instead of just spouting your usual snide remarks, I'll fix it.

[J Jason Vodnansky]

I don't think I should have to quote the rules to the Regional Director, but since you asked...

Might I suggest a read of CoR 3.05, B, 1...

Nothing "snide" about it.  Black and white, and its been that way since the beginning.  Or did we miss reading the section about duties of the RD since the website isn't the only issue...

Yes, that WAS snide.

Jason Vodnansky

[Bryan Wollenberg]

Oh my!  The sky is falling!  I have a contact form instead of listing the email addresses for me and Karl.    And that ever elusive link to the EC website?  Updated to point to the new one.

[J Jason Vodnansky]

Uh, where did I say the sky was falling?

See how easy that was?  Now you have taken 2 items off my list, and I have 2 less items to complain about...

Jason Vodnansky

[J Jason Vodnansky]

Guess I should have looked before giving you credit on the email addresses.

The rule is pretty clear on that too...

Item back on the list...
Jason Vodnansky

[Bryan Wollenberg]

Glad to hear it!  I was actually getting worried that I wasn't checking enough items off your list.

[David Jedrejcic]

Jason, we are all standing ready to attend to the items that you have on our to do lists.  Please send us a prioritized copy and we will attend to them in the order that you desire, starting immediately.  Between working full time, finishing the research on my Ph.D., spending time with my wife and family, traveling out of town and out of the country for work related issues, keeping all of the ARTCC's in the Southern Region happy, managing the LAXFO hub of UVA, controlling for ZDC, and volunteering in my community, I will make certain that your list items are completed on your timeline so as to try to avoid the incessant bludgeoning of the VATSIM staff that you seem to have made your life's work.  

Please try to keep some perspective in this life, and perhaps you could try to make some friends by sharing a kind word or two every once in a while for all of the work that this army of volunteers is doing to help you and your colleagues.  Better yet, perhaps you should apply for a VATUSA staff position so that you could actually take ownership of some of these issues that you seem to think need immediate attention instead of berating their efforts on a daily basis.

[J Jason Vodnansky]

The Code of Regs indicates quite clearly that the Regional Director is [!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]...accountable to the users of VATSIM and the members of the divisions which make up his or her region.[/quote]

I'm sorry that I am actually trying to hold him accountable as is my right under the rules set up on this network.

Thanks,
JV

[David Jedrejcic]

When will the VATNA website comply with requirements of the Code of Regulations?  Better yet, why wasn't it set up in compliance with the CoR?

It seems that following the rules still is optional in VATSIM, or shall we call it "selective enforcement"?


Regards,
Jason Vodnansky

It's in the way that you use it, Jason.  Instead of implying that the RD was doing his job poorly (and indirectly suggesting that you, yourself could have done a better job at it), you might try putting in some language that shows that you understand that the RD (and all of the other members of the VATSIM staff) have a lot to do, and that you appreciate their time.  Perhaps you could try throwing that in every once in a while.  Perhaps you don't say so because in fact you do not appreciate their time and dedication?

Next, you might try to stop alleging misbehavior on the part of these dedicated volunteers at every chance you get.  It is not appreciated by the defendants, nor is it appreciated by their colleagues (such as myself), and it only results in discontent on the part of the onlookers of your sililoquies.  My point is that you are accomplishing only negative goals with your current methods.  

Or, if you prefer, you can continue to check your local jar of vinegar to see how many flies you have so far.  As we continue to hear reports of controllers having transferred out of your ARTCC in order to distance themselves from you personally, perhaps you might try to decode the hidden message behind these actions.

[Dan Leavitt]

It's in the way that you use it, Jason.  Instead of implying that the RD was doing his job poorly (and indirectly suggesting that you, yourself could have done a better job at it), you might try putting in some language that shows that you understand that the RD (and all of the other members of the VATSIM staff) have a lot to do, and that you appreciate their time.  Perhaps you could try throwing that in every once in a while.  Perhaps you don't say so because in fact you do not appreciate their time and dedication?

Next, you might try to stop alleging misbehavior on the part of these dedicated volunteers at every chance you get.  It is not appreciated by the defendants, nor is it appreciated by their colleagues (such as myself), and it only results in discontent on the part of the onlookers of your sililoquies.  My point is that you are accomplishing only negative goals with your current methods.  

Or, if you prefer, you can continue to check your local jar of vinegar to see how many flies you have so far.  As we continue to hear reports of controllers having transferred out of your ARTCC in order to distance themselves from you personally, perhaps you might try to decode the hidden message behind these actions.

David, I'm going to stay out of most of this, as it has nothing to do with me, but when you start telling Jason to check his jar of vinegar to see his flies, etc... Jason has absolutely no hand in what is happening at ZAU, he's just "another member", no ties to the staff, he doesn't have any special access, nothing. In regards to controllers "continuing to transfer out", Jason has been practically non-existent at ZAU since he stepped down. He's complying with our activity policy, and that's it, nothing above and beyond, so how is he making people transfer out, when he's all of 3 1/2 hours in the past 28 day period. If that's somehow forcing people out, please let us know so we can take action on said accusations. I see the transfer notices when someone leaves, and I just checked my records. In the above mentioned time period 5 members left ZAU. 3 of them did it on their own accord, whether it be picking the wrong ARTCC when initially joining, or leaving b/c they like a different departments training materials. The 4th left because he claims he got no response. We emailed him a welcome packet, it outlined the procedures to start training, he didn't make any attempt at training, or we didn't have enough slots for him, so he left. The last one stated that we didn't answer a forum post and that's why he left. I'll admit we didn't, but that's only because the post said "fine ignore me".  Nothing we can do there.  If you want to go back further than this period, someone's been holding a grudge for a damn long time. And looking back any further than what I just did can hardly be called continuing to see people leave due to Jason since Jason stepped down over 2 months ago.

Again, if there is some sort of matter that any member of our facility is doing that is driving controllers away, mine and Joe's inbox are always open.

Regards,

Dan

[David Jedrejcic]

Dan,

One of the controllers I was referring to left a post in a related topic here recently, and they transferred out of ZAU in November of last year, stating this as a reason in his post.

I never said anyone was forcing people out of ZAU, but I did imply that people would leave due to personality conflicts.  I have seen more than one controller in my time elect to leave an ARTCC due to another controller - it doesn't have to be a staff member to make the culture at an ARTCC degrade to a point where fellow controllers simply leave due to the ambiance created by one discontented controller.  That mechanism works with great efficacy.

The jar of vinegar and the flies is referring to the lack of success on this forum in trying to see success with the items he wants to see taken care of, and has nothing to do with ZAU or its controllers.  Apparently my analogies are not being understood, but that's alright  

I understand your viewpoint, Dan, and I do not mean to say that anything is in need of attention at ZAU in particular, as I have no way of knowing that about your ARTCC.  My comments are strictly focused on the VATUSA forum, the topics being discussed here, and their effects on the VATUSA membership in general.

[Dan Leavitt]

Dan,

One of the controllers I was referring to left a post in a related topic here recently, and they transferred out of ZAU in November of last year, stating this as a reason in his post.

I never said anyone was forcing people out of ZAU, but I did imply that people would leave due to personality conflicts.  I have seen more than one controller in my time elect to leave an ARTCC due to another controller - it doesn't have to be a staff member to make the culture at an ARTCC degrade to a point where fellow controllers simply leave due to the ambiance created by one discontented controller.  That mechanism works with great efficacy.

The jar of vinegar and the flies is referring to the lack of success on this forum in trying to see success with the items he wants to see taken care of, and has nothing to do with ZAU or its controllers.  Apparently my analogies are not being understood, but that's alright  

I understand your viewpoint, Dan, and I do not mean to say that anything is in need of attention at ZAU in particular, as I have no way of knowing that about your ARTCC.  My comments are strictly focused on the VATUSA forum, the topics being discussed here, and their effects on the VATUSA membership in general.

David,

Glad to hear we don't have a problem specific to ZAU. It's 3 A.M. for me, so I may not be functioning at full capacity in regards to analogies. I just wanted to ensure that nothing was currently the problem, as you said [!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]As we continue to hear reports of controllers having transferred out of your ARTCC in order to distance themselves from you personally[/quote]  When I saw the continue part, I interpreted that to be "recent" I know recent is up to interpretation, and that's where I got my 28 days from. Now that we have our timeline worked out, it makes more sense to me.

Dan

[Bruce Clingan]

I find it odd and a little disheartening that a VATUSA staff member is ragging on a simple member for sharing his opinions right or wrong.  Jason has not violated the code of conduct, trust me we would all know if he did because there are a list of supervisors and admins who would have at him if he did.

Jason was a staff member at one time, and I think anyone who truly knows him would agree that Jason's biggest pet peeve on this network is the idea that so much is expected of its "volunteers", and to a point they are expected to drop personal life issues at times to tend to VATSIM, which I say is slightly ridiculous. But I do remember a line which appears in almost every leadership "job" posting on this network which reads something like "If you are at all unsure about the time commitments involved in this position please don't apply".

Jason is not like the controller who signs up for VATSIM on Monday and resuests training everyday, particularly during times which instructors specifically say they are not available, then next Monday leaves a nasty post in the forum and transfers out saying in their transfer "The staff at XXX don't do anything and all should be fired" so on and so forth.  Bryan has been in his position, and Bryan is not the only VATSIM staff member here, for like 11 months (don't quote me here I have better things to do than look this date up) and the only major change in VATNA is an extremely high turnover of VATUSA staff.  

This is just my personal view as there may be many things that Byran has done that I don't see.  All I see is the VATUSA staff asking several times for clarification or wording on things that didn't happen (yes I know they have now that is not the point).  I don't think that VATUSA would allow me to have a policy published on my site because  I want to use it sometime in the future but for now just ignore it

[Bryan Wollenberg]

Bruce, of course there is a lot going on behind the scenes that you don't see, and of course some that you do.  The GRP was one thing that took a huge amount of time, for example.  And of course, there is a lot going on in other Divisions.  Take a read through the EC minutes some time and it will give a little insight into what is taking place elsewhere within the Region.

That said, I have yet to receive a single email from you detailing what it is you would like me to do.  Want me to do something?  Let me know.  I'm always open to suggestions.  Let me know what exactly it is that you would like me to accomplish for you right now.