Where's Management?

Alan DuBois

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Where's Management?
« on: December 29, 2010, 01:17:02 pm »
I was just wondering where management is.  I don't see any of them online hardly at all.  Do they act like real world management, get a promotion to the front office then never seen again.  Don't know, but my idea of good management is to have "presense" with those you are managing.

Just a thought.

Brian Pryor

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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2010, 03:50:37 pm »
Alan,

I can speak for myself and several of the ATM's who are online on a semi regular basis usually as Z##_ATM etc. , some of us also work as supervisors so you may see us on as XX_SUP.

Hope that answers your questions.
Brian Pryor

Scott DeWoody

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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2010, 06:01:15 pm »
Don't know whether you are talking the ATC side, or the pilot side, as far as my VA, since being the CEO of AvA, I probably have more hours online in the air than 3/4 of my pilots, so, I'm not hiding.  On the ATC side, alot of management, ATM's, and such, on up the line into Division management are like Bryan said, also Supervisors, so they may be online, but you don't see them in their "staff" position necessarily.


Scott DeWoody

Harold Rutila

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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2010, 08:41:07 pm »
I prefer to see my staff online controlling or supervising and not "observing" via our staff callsigns. Most ARTCCs are the same way, too. In terms of VATUSA, I can't speak for them, but I know they're all very active in the forums and with progress on the backend of the site. But I'm not about to go VATSIM Stats all of their CIDs....

What management are you referencing?

Tom Seeley

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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 07:50:34 am »
More to the point Mr. DuBois: What is your need? VATSIM and VATUSA have active management staff at all levels. Is there some particular issue you're concerned with, or was your post just to get a rise?
Tom Seeley
Deputy Director (Retired), VATUSA

Rahul Parkar

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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 10:18:42 am »
Tom,

Why does Mr. DuBois need to have a *need* to ask a question. He is just wondering where his VATUSA Staff is and he is just innocently asking the question that I'm sure many have thought but nobody has really asked.

And, his *Issue* is that he is trying to promote his good idea of management,
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]but my idea of good management is to have "presense" with those you are managing.[/quote]
All he is doing is asking an innocent question.

P.S. Implying that his post was "just to get a rise" isn't the nicest way to treat someone who is quite clearly a new member to VATUSA and controlling.

Rahul
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 10:42:51 am by Rahul Parkar »
Rahul Parkar,
Yes it's me again!

Where's Management?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 10:55:48 am »
Quote from: Rahul Parkar
Tom,

Why does Mr. DuBois need to have a *need* to ask a question. He is just wondering where his VATUSA Staff is and he is just innocently asking the question that I'm sure many have thought but nobody has really asked.

And, his *Issue* is that he is trying to promote his good idea of management,

All he is doing is asking an innocent question.

P.S. Implying that his post was "just to get a rise" isn't the nicest way to treat someone who is quite clearly a new member to VATUSA and controlling.

Rahul

You are kidding right?
Bob Carmona
Division Conflict Resolution Manager
VATUSA

Rahul Parkar

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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2010, 11:03:31 am »
Bob,

Why would I be kidding... Does My post make you laugh?
Is it your thing to have a staff member imply that a newbie to VATUSA and controlling is making a post "Just to get a rise"?

Rahul
Rahul Parkar,
Yes it's me again!

Where's Management?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2010, 11:35:39 am »
Quote from: Rahul Parkar
Bob,

Why would I be kidding... Does My post make you laugh?
Is it your thing to have a staff member imply that a newbie to VATUSA and controlling is making a post "Just to get a rise"?

Rahul

There is nothing "innocent" about saying things like "Do they act like real world management, get a promotion to the front office then never seen again." or "Don't know, but my idea of good management is to have "presense" with those you are managing."

So my question still stands. You are kidding right?

Bob Carmona
Division Conflict Resolution Manager
VATUSA

Joshua Webb

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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2010, 01:42:37 pm »
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE [/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]More to the point Mr. DuBois: What is your need? VATSIM and VATUSA have active management staff at all levels. Is there some particular issue you're concerned with, or was your post just to get a rise?[/quote]

I think Tom's questions are innocent enough as well.
Josh Webb
Miami ARTCC
VATSIM Supervisor

Dan Leavitt

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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 03:14:29 pm »
Quote from: Bob Carmona
There is nothing "innocent" about saying things like "Do they act like real world management, get a promotion to the front office then never seen again." or "Don't know, but my idea of good management is to have "presense" with those you are managing."

So my question still stands. You are kidding right?

Bob, let's be realistic here, this is exactly what VATUSA's management does, they get their promotion, then hide behind exclusive policies that protect them and harm the general membership. They have 0 presence, and 0 accountability because the VATUSA staff has this mindset that they are "untouchable" all the way to the top of the USA ranks, and then have the gall to claim that their "staff work" keeps them from being online, but hold the members to a time standard of being online. Well let's say that XYZ persons family member has to have major surgery, the injured person is off work for a month+, so now you have to work, and take care of that person, a staff member hides behind their policy, while a general member gets removed from the roster...surely these can't be inclusive policies, like the founders requested. Good management should do the work they did before, ie: controlling, and then also do their job that they got appointed to. This is a volunteer job, if they don't have the time to do what they did before AND do the job they're in now, step down and let someone else take the reins who has the time.

DL
Dan Leavitt
vZAU En Route Controller

Ira Robinson

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Where's Management?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 03:17:08 pm »
Quote from: Rahul Parkar
Tom,

Why does Mr. DuBois need to have a *need* to ask a question. He is just wondering where his VATUSA Staff is and he is just innocently asking the question that I'm sure many have thought but nobody has really asked.

And, his *Issue* is that he is trying to promote his good idea of management,

All he is doing is asking an innocent question.

P.S. Implying that his post was "just to get a rise" isn't the nicest way to treat someone who is quite clearly a new member to VATUSA and controlling.

Rahul


Come on Rahul, you have too much time on your hands this week.  Mr. Dubois is hardly a newbie having been in and about VATSIM for a couple of years now and has over 250 online flying hours. He has no ATC background at all so why as a pilot would he even bother to look for a VATUSA "boss"?

My friend you should let him answer any questions directed to him himself.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 03:17:43 pm by Ira Robinson »
Ira Robinson
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Jeff Turner

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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2010, 06:14:42 pm »
Quote from: Ira Robinson
Come on Rahul, you have too much time on your hands this week.  Mr. Dubois is hardly a newbie having been in and about VATSIM for a couple of years now and has over 250 online flying hours. He has no ATC background at all so why as a pilot would he even bother to look for a VATUSA "boss"?

My friend you should let him answer any questions directed to him himself.

Tom is spot on - It is a valid question to see where his management is, in the real world, we wouldn't want employees working for someone that they didn't see, know, or hear from once in awhile.

What are your needs or is it just a general question as to being visible?

@Dan - Not sure how your posting is helping the question by posting something like "This is what VATUSA management does"  How does that help?

Jeff Turner

Rahul Parkar

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« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 07:56:43 pm »
Ira, Meh, I may have a lot of time on my hands this week, but without work, I don't have anything to do
Also, I stated he was a newbie to VATUSA and controlling having done a Quick stats check prior to saying anything outrageous.

Bob, I'm not kidding, No.

Jeff, I totally agree that it is a valid question. And agree with your point with regards to the real world.

Dan, I'm not quite sure about your point, but reading into it, I think that there is some part which relates to VATUSA management, and another part that relates to something else... But I see your opinion in that you think VATUSA Staff hide behind curtains, I'm not going to disagree or agree with this fact at the moment as I don't really have any stats to back that point up.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:42:53 pm by Rahul Parkar »
Rahul Parkar,
Yes it's me again!

Ira Robinson

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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 08:03:23 pm »
Quote from: Rahul Parkar
Ira, Meh, I may have a lot of time on my hands this week, but without work, I don't have anything to do
Also, I stated he was a newbie to VATUSA and controlling having done a Quick stats check prior to saying anything outrageous.


My sole point was to agree with Tom and point out that you should let him speak for himself.  If that did not come across clearly enough then I guess I should have chosen my words better.   Anyone has the right to ask questions but I too must admit to little bit of curiosity after seeing the words he chose.  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 08:03:38 pm by Ira Robinson »
Ira Robinson
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