ATC Coverage Times

Brad Zimmer

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ATC Coverage Times
« on: March 16, 2017, 08:14:00 AM »
what I like about Vatsim is the variety of places you can fly.  Being on both Vatsim and Pilotedge, I like the fact that I can fly anywhere in the world rather than a small portion of the US.  What I don't like as much is not knowing when and for how long ATC will be online.  I currently use Vatspy on my iPad to see where coverage is but more often than not I'll check, load up the sim, flightplan, etc., only to hear that ATC is going offline in a few minutes. Is there a way to see when a particular ATC is going offline prior to filing a flight plan or even better, when someone will be online (outside of a scheduled event)?  I couldn't find that in Vatspy.  I currently fly vpilot in P3D.  I would think Vatsim could make ATC give an estimated time that they will be online prior to logging in.  Is there something like that?

Also, and I am not a controller so I don't know how difficult this would be, but why don't most controllers just open up an ARTCC and cover that whole area, rather than controlling a tower at an airport that has center control offline?  Flying in the US, I don't see that the traffic is too congested that it would be too hard to manage (again, I'm not a controller so I'm not sure the level of difficulty).  That way, they can control all aspects within that area and give the pilots more ATC throughout the flight.  I never understand why in the middle of the day someone would control KPHL for example when there are few planes in the region at that time and no center coverage.  Wouldn't that be boring just waiting for someone to "pop up" at KPHL? 

The events on the other hand are great and a lot easier to plan.  Thanks guys!

Joe VanMeter

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 08:43:34 AM »
To answer your first question, most of the time we log on when we have time and it doesn't follow to much of a schedule. I believe some ARTCCs do post a schedule for when some controllers will be online outside of an event. As a general rule of thumb, controllers will be on for at least an hour. There was another thread similar to this which you can take a look at https://www.vatusa.net/forums/index.php?topic=5251.0

To answer your second qustion, the simple answer is not everyone is rated to do enroute control. We have to go through training to get certified for each position (Delivery/ground, Tower, TRACON, and Enroute).

Krikor Hajian

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 09:15:46 AM »
Controlling is entirely volunteer based. While controllers may have an idea of how long they'll be on, things change, and they may not control at all when they were planning on doing so. It's unrealistic to force controllers to sign up for controlling, however many ARTCC's have timetables or calendars that controllers can use to indicate when they will be online. As well, many controllers will include an estimated time in their controller ATIS indicating when they are planning on logging off. Of course, if you fly for an event, controllers will be on for the entire advertised time, and often for another hour or longer later.

As far as controlling local positions, controllers are required to undergo a series of training sessions and exams to move up. You start with GND/DEL, move up to TWR, then APP, and finally CTR. It often takes upwards of a year for a student to go from an Observer to a Center controller. Programs such as VATSpy show the VATSIM ratings (S1, S2, S3, C1, C3, I1, I3, SUP, ADM), although this may not correspond to the controllers certifications within their facility. As an example, I am a visiting controller at New York (ZNY). While I hold an I3 rating (and control at ZNY as a C1, a controller or center rating), I am only certed for approach at one facility and departure at another. This means that the HIGHEST position I can work is NY_ARD_APP (approach for Newark Area), and I cannot contorl anywhere at PHL, not even Ground. A roster, including what positions different controllers are certified for, can be found on ARTCC websites.

Hope this helps clarify things.

Brad Zimmer

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 09:29:11 AM »
Controlling is entirely volunteer based. While controllers may have an idea of how long they'll be on, things change, and they may not control at all when they were planning on doing so. It's unrealistic to force controllers to sign up for controlling, however many ARTCC's have timetables or calendars that controllers can use to indicate when they will be online. As well, many controllers will include an estimated time in their controller ATIS indicating when they are planning on logging off. Of course, if you fly for an event, controllers will be on for the entire advertised time, and often for another hour or longer later.

As far as controlling local positions, controllers are required to undergo a series of training sessions and exams to move up. You start with GND/DEL, move up to TWR, then APP, and finally CTR. It often takes upwards of a year for a student to go from an Observer to a Center controller. Programs such as VATSpy show the VATSIM ratings (S1, S2, S3, C1, C3, I1, I3, SUP, ADM), although this may not correspond to the controllers certifications within their facility. As an example, I am a visiting controller at New York (ZNY). While I hold an I3 rating (and control at ZNY as a C1, a controller or center rating), I am only certed for approach at one facility and departure at another. This means that the HIGHEST position I can work is NY_ARD_APP (approach for Newark Area), and I cannot contorl anywhere at PHL, not even Ground. A roster, including what positions different controllers are certified for, can be found on ARTCC websites.

Hope this helps clarify things.

Thanks.  I didn't realize there was that much involvement.  This makes sense.  Since I fly airliners I think my only option is to fly to and from where an event is, fly where I see ATC and hope they stay on, or fly a very long haul and hope someone is there at some point during the flight (which I am ok with).  Last week I did ORD-SAN and took off with ORD twr.  There was really nothing online throughout my route so I was able to do other things.  When I saw Denver Center online on VATspy, I was able to go back to the cockpit, check in and work with center.  Low and behold, when I got to SAN, they were being controlled, so it worked out well. 

Krikor Hajian

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 09:34:17 AM »
Yep. It also really depends on the time you're flying; in the US, most people are working or at school during the day. You'll see increased activity from 3-6 PM Eastern (19-22z) and the most activity from 7-12 PM Eastern (23-04z). Of course, there is also more activity on Fridays and weekends. VATUSA has an event calendar, as does the network as a whole, where you can see scheduled events and their details. There is a crossfire coming up, as well as the weekly FNO (Friday Night Ops). The Friday events especially receive a lot of traffic and typically the airports are quite well staffed.

Evan Reiter

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 10:57:36 PM »
Some facilities (I believe ZLA is another) encourage controllers to (on a voluntary basis) post their expected availability. For us in BVA, you can find that here: http://www.bvartcc.com/Pilots/ATCTimetable.aspx.

There are many different opinions within VATUSA as to the value of such tools, some of which you have seen on this thread. However, when I fly on the network, I would always appreciate being able to know (within reason) when controllers plan to stick around until. I can entirely appreciate that real life happens and plans change; I sometimes have to change my start/end times after I get online. But, as a general rule, I try to post my availability as I know about it, so those who do appreciate knowing have an option to.

Brin Brody

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 07:18:55 AM »
Some facilities (I believe ZLA is another) encourage controllers to (on a voluntary basis) post their expected availability. For us in BVA, you can find that here: http://www.bvartcc.com/Pilots/ATCTimetable.aspx.

There are many different opinions within VATUSA as to the value of such tools, some of which you have seen on this thread. However, when I fly on the network, I would always appreciate being able to know (within reason) when controllers plan to stick around until. I can entirely appreciate that real life happens and plans change; I sometimes have to change my start/end times after I get online. But, as a general rule, I try to post my availability as I know about it, so those who do appreciate knowing have an option to.

Thanks, Evan...  Might steal that idea from you. ;)

Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 07:35:57 AM »
from 3-6 PM Eastern (19-22z) and the most activity from 7-12 PM Eastern (23-04z)

Do you mean 12AM (midnight?)?  3-6PM comes after 12PM but 22z comes before 23z ;)

Camden Bruno

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 11:30:38 AM »
Do you mean 12AM (midnight?)?  3-6PM comes after 12PM but 22z comes before 23z ;)
Washigton runs on a different clock.  ;D

Krikor Hajian

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Re: ATC Coverage Times
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 03:50:54 PM »
Do you mean 12AM (midnight?)?  3-6PM comes after 12PM but 22z comes before 23z ;)
Washigton runs on a different clock.  ;D

Indeed, I meant 12AM, midnight...silly mistake :p