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  • VatVenture 2018: July 28, 2018

vZAU VatVenture 2018

Matthew Bartels

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2018, 12:10:41 PM »
I have to question if telling pilots to sit in the grass and watch an airshow is an appropriate use of VATSIM under CoC B14 which prohibits the use of non-active callsigns for extended periods of time. A user connected to watch an airshow is not participating as a pilot, air traffic controller, instructor, or designated staff member engaging in administrative duties.

As an aside, Airshows / formation flights do not render very well on the network due to the slow update rate coupled with the fast changes of direction of the aircraft. Thus the interpolation gets it wrong and you will see a lot of erroneous positions of the aircraft.       

Nick Warren

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 01:16:11 AM »
This is why we can't have nice things.  Thank you Clay and Jamar for trying to make a nice event and add in a little outside the box fun in the spirit of Air Venture.  Shame it is getting ridiculously political.

Jake Hansen

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2018, 11:58:43 AM »
This is getting pretty pathetic. EAA is about coming together as pilots and enthusiasts to share our greatest passion. I respect the effort that has gone in to this event's planning, and I wish it well.

I'm doing a preflight as we speak, and I hoped to come in to this thread to find a group of guys doing a fly-in together. Instead, I was greeted with selfish rule-plucking, and a lot of what I hope is just trolling.

That being said, if anyone would like to fly in together this afternoon-please let me know. I will be in the area most of the day, so just shoot me a DM.

**I don't mean to offend. I empathize with those who want every little detail to be perfect. The reality is, Airventure is tough enough to pull off in real-life. Re-creating it in the sim requires some serious dedication- but more importantly it requires a bit of patience and imagination on our parts.**

Clay Brock

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2018, 05:07:28 PM »
WOW! Just WOW! What an amazing event! Thank you so much to everyone who flew in, and also showed support for the FSX Blue Angels. That was probably the most fun I've ever had controlling on the network! We had over 20 airplanes on the ground to watch the show, and countless arrivals during the event. What a truly perfect example of a community coming together to create something spectacular. Thanks again to everyone that flew in, and we'll see you on the scopes next year!

DANIEL GUITARD

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2018, 05:09:00 PM »
Please support this event for the future.  As FSXBA#2 (Zino), I really enjoyed participating in this event.  Hope this happens again next year.  Thumbs up to the organizer, and good job FSX BA guys.  Great team, fun to fly with you guys.  Cheers!

Nick Warren

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2018, 05:17:44 PM »
Clay, you rocked it today!  The Blue Angels show was amazing.  I was sorry to see you didn't have much help on the scopes or in the cab, but you handled it like a true professional.  The politics from certain administrators were ridiculous, and you, and the support you received from the community, show what this network can truly be about.  Thank you to you and your staff for promoting a wonderful event!

Jawaun Magee

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2018, 05:21:17 PM »
Everybody,

Just a huge thanks to the FSX Blue Angels! And also big thanks to a great friend Clay Brock for helping me get this event on the calendar. And a superb job to the pilots for there cooperation through it all!

Thanks so much

Logan Waldman

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2018, 05:43:10 PM »
Thank you Clay For such an amazing event! I honesty hope that this event continues into the future, as flying in and watching the blue angels preform was probably the most fun I've ever had on the network. when most of the pilots actually understand what is going on, the Fisk approach frequency is just amazing to listen to. Regardless of any bureaucracy, I am truely glad I got to experience VatVenture 2018.

Amin Abrahem

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2018, 06:04:10 PM »
Thank you Clay for being on today and providing the very professional ATC! An amazing event!

Ira Robinson

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2018, 06:55:49 PM »
Clay, you rocked it today!  The Blue Angels show was amazing.  I was sorry to see you didn't have much help on the scopes or in the cab, but you handled it like a true professional.  The politics from certain administrators were ridiculous, and you, and the support you received from the community, show what this network can truly be about.  Thank you to you and your staff for promoting a wonderful event!




You know something Nick, you've  been around here a pretty long time.  If anyone in this discussion should be concerned about screwing things up for the future I would that would be you.  But here you are, leading everyone astray with your off-hand comments about how the politicians are taking all the fun out of life.

So for everyone who is jumping on the bandwagon here let me 'splain you all something.  To begin with, Matt's involvement is because that's his job.  He's here to help make events better. Better for the controllers, better for the pilots, better for all of us.  And if I were you I would be more worried about the questions he didn't ask than the ones he did. 

Can you close an airport?  Nope.
Can you create a class of pilots and make them vulnerable to facing sanctions for violating the CoC?
Does CoC A(1) apply and to whom, the pilots who make it in or the ones who don't?

If memory serves those are just the ones that have already been brought to light.   I can give you a list of problems with what was just done that would make your head spin. But that's not the point, or our job.  Our job is to help you make this work, believe it or not.  So if this had been planned out in advance, Matt could have sat down with you, anticipated the problems and helped make it so they weren't problems.  Perhaps doing silly little things like getting approval upfront so that the Supervisors wouldn't descend on all of those pilots sitting around for so long.  Or getting special permission for the Angels do their thing without breaking the various rules they broke.

Guys, we're not here to make life difficult.  We're here to see if there is a way to make this happen again next year, or next week, or whenever.  Because it is a new and novel idea, and it may be worth looking into further.  But only if everyone cooperates and stops taking pot shots at those people who are here to help.

And that's my two cents worth.




Nick Warren

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2018, 09:29:28 PM »
Did I just get dad talked on the forum?  Oh well.  Yes Ira, I have been here for some time.  We'll just say since inception, and SATCO before that.  From that I can tell you, I am more concerned about staleness "screwing things up" than I am progression.  VATSIM came about when...2001?  The CoC goes back to 2003?  It's stale, and it's no wonder people who were valued members on this network are now breaking off to form new ventures.  I, like you, see on a constant basis, much more profound deviations from the CoC.

I called you an administrator, not a politician.  I know you don't base your decisions on the approval or disapproval of the group, as a politician would.  I did say, you guys were playing politics on here, and you were.  You, and Matt aired your questions and grievances about this event in public forum, therefore, you have no place to fault anyone else for injecting their opposing comment on the matter.   I have every much the privilege to stand up for the spirit of the event, as you guys do to fall down and hit your head on the CoC.

So let's talk about the CoC.  First of all, there is nothing in A1 that applied here.  Nobody was discourteous or disrespectful in the planning or execution of this event.  I don't see B14 applying either, as every callsign had to be related to a pilot at some point during the event, but I'll remain flexible with the play on words as I am with the monitoring of unicom.  I really don't know what you are getting at regarding a "class of pilots".  Can you close an airport?  I don't know.  Where does it say you can or can't?  It isn't in the CoC.  Actually several ARTCC SOP languages include a section for closure of runways and/or airports, and the phrase "prohibited to do so" isn't included in that language.  Whatever the beef is with the Blue Angels performance, I will stay away from.  I imagine it is some vSOA issue, which, goes back to antiquated policy.  They did a stellar and professional job. 

In the end, the controller of the event just opted to cease ATC operations at the designated hour, in which no rules became violated, except of course for those who still diminished the enjoyment of others by choosing to depart or arrive when there was traffic in the immediate vicinity of the field or runway area.  Even if it was a formation of aircraft in orchestrated aerobatic maneuvering.  Going back to the majority of ARTCC  SOP's on the matter.  The runway or airport may choose to be closed by approval of the shift supervisor in which pilots may still arrive or depart under their own risk.  Essentially what happened today.



The people showed what is possible on this network with some updates; and really Ira, that was my central theme in the entire post.  This event, the extras, and the community that chose to rise up and respond the way it did, is what shows what is possible.  I think by reading your words, you know that deep down inside that it is possible to do so..  If it's your goal to make things like this a consistent reality for the community, then I will stand up and applaud that.  If it's your goal to cut red tape, and bring us out of the turn of the century, then I applaud that.  That wasn't what happened in this forum thread though, and that wasn't what you guys showed to the community.  I know we can do better on all sides, and I as a long time member, welcome those changes.

Nick

Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2018, 10:38:37 PM »
Regardless of the politics, this event was a cool idea! I wish I could've been there and it seems like it was really fun! Congrats to all the guys who pulled this off. I'd love to see this happen again next year!

Ira Robinson

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2018, 11:47:43 PM »
I started to write a reply to Nick but decided that it would serve no purpose to continue bantering this back and forth for the world to see.  It's clear to me that we are arguing several different issues so I am going to craft a reply in private, that we may continue the discussion without interruption or outside commentary.


Thank you all for your comments, and I am glad the event went well.[size=78%] [/size]





Nick Warren

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Re: vZAU VatVenture 2018
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2018, 12:30:03 AM »
Reasonable and appreciated.  I look forward to the dialogue.