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  • BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country: January 09, 2019

[09JAN 2000-2300 ET] BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country

Krikor Hajian

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[09JAN 2000-2300 ET] BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country
« on: August 29, 2018, 02:37:46 pm »

Featuring: Boston South Satellites [Norwood (OWD), Hanscom (BED), and TAN/GHG/1B9/etc.]

In this Challenge, we focus on an old school VFR cross country flight using visual navigation, complex airspace, and lots of traffic. Pilots are encouraged to request Flight Following for the full terminal area experience.

Check out the Challenge web page for more information. 


Krikor Hajian (HI) - 1283146
Deputy Air Traffic Manager | Instructor
krikorh@bvartcc.com
- - - - - - - - - -
VATUSA ACE Team Member | VATSIM Supervisor

Re: [09JAN 2000-2300 ET] BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 12:54:38 pm »
Hello,
I have a question about this sentence from the linked event briefing:

Quote
Pilots may be told to remain clear of the Boston Class B airspace and are not guaranteed to receive a clearance through the Norwood or Hanscom Class D airspace. This means that aircraft may have to alter their route to avoid the airspace or descend early to avoid it.

I have done a number of PRP flights from BVARTCC, and I'm confused about the clearance situation -- in PRP VFR#4, I learned that ATC clearance is not required for C and D airspace, only "contact" with them.  Is it true then from the event briefing that you could be "denied clearance" through Norwood/Hanscom class D?

Re: [09JAN 2000-2300 ET] BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2019, 11:51:35 am »
Hello,
I have a question about this sentence from the linked event briefing:

Quote
Pilots may be told to remain clear of the Boston Class B airspace and are not guaranteed to receive a clearance through the Norwood or Hanscom Class D airspace. This means that aircraft may have to alter their route to avoid the airspace or descend early to avoid it.

I have done a number of PRP flights from BVARTCC, and I'm confused about the clearance situation -- in PRP VFR#4, I learned that ATC clearance is not required for C and D airspace, only "contact" with them.  Is it true then from the event briefing that you could be "denied clearance" through Norwood/Hanscom class D?

Technically, you need two way radio communications for a C and D. So the way an ATC will "deny" you service is by simply replying "Stand By". Unless they state their callsign and your callsign, two way radio communications have not been established. An example of 2 way radio comms would be if you called up and got this response: "N12345, Providence Approach, roger". However if ATC simply says "Last aircraft calling, standby" means that you cannot enter the class C or D airspace.
Prithvisagar Shivaraman
Facility Engineer
New York ARTCC

Don Desfosse

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Re: [09JAN 2000-2300 ET] BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 12:45:02 pm »
So the way an ATC will "deny" you service is by simply replying "Stand By".
Or, of course, you could be specifically told, "[Callsign], remain clear of the Class [C/D] airspace."

To answer your other question, yes, from the event briefing, you could be told to remain clear of airspace.  Generally, transitions through an airspace are done workload permitting.  Although I wouldn't expect you to be told to remain clear, it is certainly possible.
Don Desfosse
Division Director Emeritus, VATUSA

Brin Brody

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Re: [09JAN 2000-2300 ET] BVA Challenge: VFR Cross Country
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 02:53:06 pm »
So the way an ATC will "deny" you service is by simply replying "Stand By".
Or, of course, you could be specifically told, "[Callsign], remain clear of the Class [C/D] airspace."

Logically speaking, if I need to intentionally deny access to airspace, I will make sure the instruction is clear, to avoid any confusion whatsoever. While the rules are clear, it's simply easier to deny, rather than to deny by omission.
Brin Brody
Deputy Air Traffic Manager
Jacksonville ARTCC
datm@zjxartcc.org