ATC Phraseology doubts - say altitude & radar contact

[Jaris Aizprua]

Hello, I've been flying in USA during the last days and I have some ATC doubts; once TWR releases you to the next available controller, APP or DEP or CTR, that controller tells you first "say altitude", you reply like "1200ft to 5000ft", and then they inmeadiatly say "radar contact climb to 10000ft".
So my doubt is, why do they ask your altitude if they can see you on the radar?.

[Matthew Kramer]

Hello, I've been flying in USA during the last days and I have some ATC doubts; once TWR releases you to the next available controller, APP or DEP or CTR, that controller tells you first "say altitude", you reply like "1200ft to 5000ft", and then they inmeadiatly say "radar contact climb to 10000ft".
So my doubt is, why do they ask your altitude if they can see you on the radar?.

Radar altitude readouts have to be verified as valid by the controller. They must do this when you are being radar identified for the first time, and must verify that the altitude you report is within 300 of the altitude they see.

If are asked to contact a controller in level flight, similar rules apply since you were not handed off to them from a previous controller.

You can read more about the rules in the 7110.65 under sections 5-2-18 and 5-2-19.

[James Hiscoe]

Worth noting that a pilot reporting their altitude is only really necessary to perform a Mode C verification so that the Mode C altitude can be used to assure vectors above MVA and separation from other aircraft (or when not using Mode C to provide separation through other means). Its not necessary for radar identification or issuing climbs or descents in this case. This is probably, if it went exactly as described, a VATSIMism where the controller(s) doesn't realize or is in the habit of acting as if mode C verification and radar identification are one and the same or should be achieved at the same time before issuing climbs and informing the pilot of radar contact.

So to your initial question it doesn't really make sense per the rules to withold radar ID and climb instructions in lieu of an altitude report from a departure. If they witheld vectors that'd be another story altogether.

[Jaris Aizprua]

Thank you very much guys.

[Sean Harrison]

Good topic James,

Not being familiar with FAA, Is there any requirement for an IFR departure (or I guess VFR for that matter) to call once airborne?

It obviously helps a lot, if they do, but the practice of acft reporting “airborne thru 3200” seems not to be a practice in my experience.

[Dhruv Kalra]

Good topic James,

Not being familiar with FAA, Is there any requirement for an IFR departure (or I guess VFR for that matter) to call once airborne?

It obviously helps a lot, if they do, but the practice of acft reporting “airborne thru 3200” seems not to be a practice in my experience.

Well, yes, in real life departing a towered field with an overlying radar controller, you would be told to "Contact Departure/Center" as appropriate, at which point you would check in stating your current altitude and altitude assigned.

"Departure, N12345 leaving 2000 climbing 4000"
"Departure, AAL123 leaving 2100 climbing via SUMFX1 departure"

In these cases, radar ID is accomplished through rolling/boundary notification (either verbal or non-verbal from the tower via coordination), but your altitude is still required in order to validate your Mode-C.

[James Hiscoe]

The real take away here is always report your altitude and climb instructions on departure for an easy and smooth experience. 

[Matthew Kramer]

Good topic James,

Not being familiar with FAA, Is there any requirement for an IFR departure (or I guess VFR for that matter) to call once airborne?

It obviously helps a lot, if they do, but the practice of acft reporting “airborne thru 3200” seems not to be a practice in my experience.

In the VATSIM top-down environment, when flying on the network I call the controller in roughly the spot I would have been told to contact departure. Generally around the end of the runway or climbing through 1,000.

"Center, American 1-2-3 2,500"

"American 1-2-3 radar contact, climb and maintan FL320"

Versus:

"American 1-2-3 radar contact say altitude"

"2,500 climbing 5,000, American 1-2-3"

"American 1-2-3 climb and maintain FL320."

[Mike Fries]

This is a good tip.

Good topic James,

Not being familiar with FAA, Is there any requirement for an IFR departure (or I guess VFR for that matter) to call once airborne?

It obviously helps a lot, if they do, but the practice of acft reporting “airborne thru 3200” seems not to be a practice in my experience.

In the VATSIM top-down environment, when flying on the network I call the controller in roughly the spot I would have been told to contact departure. Generally around the end of the runway or climbing through 1,000.

"Center, American 1-2-3 2,500"

"American 1-2-3 radar contact, climb and maintal FL320"

Versus:

"American 1-2-3 radar contact say altitude"

"2,500 climbing 5,000, American 1-2-3"

"American 1-2-3 climb and maintain FL320."