What's the point - point 8, point 9...

Gerald Thulbourn

  • Members
  • 18
    • View Profile
What's the point - point 8, point 9...
« on: June 23, 2020, 11:33:26 pm »
In the USA (in Live ATC and in VATSIM ATC) I've heard hand off to ground as"contact ground on point 8" (e.g. KSFO). I used to think that was just short cut to saying "you ought to know the frequency, it's the one ending .8" but now I'm thinking it's a universal short cut for 121 point something (and always ground?)

I've searched around and can't find anything on this. Could anybody from that side of the pond shed some light on this practice please?

Many thanks,
Gez

Matthew Kramer

  • ZLA Staff
  • 128
    • View Profile
Re: What's the point - point 8, point 9...
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 12:20:02 am »
Hi Gez,

It's in the FAA's governing document for ATC comunication, the 7110.65 under section 2-1-17

Quote
Transfer radio communications before an aircraft enters the receiving controller's area of jurisdiction unless otherwise coordinated or specified by a letter of agreement or a facility directive.
Transfer radio communications by specifying the following:

The facility name or location name and terminal function to be contacted. [...]
Frequency to use except the following may be omitted:
FSS frequency.
Departure frequency if previously given or published on a SID chart for the procedure issued.
TERMINAL:
Ground or local control frequency if in your opinion the pilot knows which frequency is in use.
The numbers preceding the decimal point if the ground control frequency is in the 121 MHz bandwidth.
Matthew Kramer
ZLA DATM

Gerald Thulbourn

  • Members
  • 18
    • View Profile
Re: What's the point - point 8, point 9...
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 10:17:19 am »
Thank you for the definitive answer, its great to learn; and great that people take the time to help people to learn!

Thanks again,
Gez


Robert Shearman Jr

  • Mentors
  • 236
    • View Profile
    • Slant Alpha Adventures
Re: What's the point - point 8, point 9...
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2020, 12:33:43 pm »
I learned something.  I knew it was customary to abbreviate (verbally) ground frequencies by omitting the number before the decimal point.  I thought it was an *unwritten* custom. 
Cheers,
-R.

Shane VanHoven

  • Mentors
  • 105
    • View Profile
Re: What's the point - point 8, point 9...
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 03:17:37 pm »
Hi Gez,

It's in the FAA's governing document for ATC comunication, the 7110.65 under section 2-1-17

Quote
Transfer radio communications before an aircraft enters the receiving controller's area of jurisdiction unless otherwise coordinated or specified by a letter of agreement or a facility directive.
Transfer radio communications by specifying the following:

The facility name or location name and terminal function to be contacted. [...]
Frequency to use except the following may be omitted:
FSS frequency.
Departure frequency if previously given or published on a SID chart for the procedure issued.
TERMINAL:
Ground or local control frequency if in your opinion the pilot knows which frequency is in use.
The numbers preceding the decimal point if the ground control frequency is in the 121 MHz bandwidth.

I also thought it was funny that for how specifically particular the FAA is with what we are and are not allowed to say, the .65 still that this paragraph in it. It sure is fun to "legally" take shortcuts lol!
Shane VanHoven
Minneapolis ARTCC, VATUSA ACE Team | Instructor
Private pilot, Instrument, ASEL
FAA Air Traffic Developmental, Terminal

Brad Littlejohn

  • Members
  • 146
    • View Profile
Re: What's the point - point 8, point 9...
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2020, 06:32:32 pm »
Hi Gez,

It's in the FAA's governing document for ATC comunication, the 7110.65 under section 2-1-17

Quote
Transfer radio communications before an aircraft enters the receiving controller's area of jurisdiction unless otherwise coordinated or specified by a letter of agreement or a facility directive.
Transfer radio communications by specifying the following:

The facility name or location name and terminal function to be contacted. [...]
Frequency to use except the following may be omitted:
FSS frequency.
Departure frequency if previously given or published on a SID chart for the procedure issued.
TERMINAL:
Ground or local control frequency if in your opinion the pilot knows which frequency is in use.
The numbers preceding the decimal point if the ground control frequency is in the 121 MHz bandwidth.

I also thought it was funny that for how specifically particular the FAA is with what we are and are not allowed to say, the .65 still that this paragraph in it. It sure is fun to "legally" take shortcuts lol!

Think about it this way.. if there is only one ground frequency, you don't even need to specify even part of the frequency when you hand them off!

Well, they want us to use minimal time on the frequency, right!?!?  ;D

BL.