Entering airspace of En-route controllers

Josh Nunn

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Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« on: April 29, 2018, 08:07:45 pm »
Center controllers:

When entering your airspace from uncontrolled airspace, do you prefer for pilots to go ahead and call in, or wait for you to send a contact-me?

I feel like checking in once I’ve reached a controller’s airspace is the polite thing to do, but I also could see where the controller would prefer for me to wait for a contact me if he is busy. I’ve been trying to avoid looking at vatspy in the air (to add to realism) but without this I don’t necessarily know when to check in without a contact-me. Thoughts?


Josh Nunn
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Joe VanMeter

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 08:26:09 pm »
If you know that there is a controller on you should go ahead and check in with that controller. When you check in just give the nearest VOR to your current location so the controllers can find you easier.
Joe VanMeter
Deputy Air Traffic Manager
vZID ARTCC

Robert Reifsnyder

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 09:09:45 pm »
If you know that there is a controller on you should go ahead and check in with that controller. When you check in just give the nearest VOR to your current location so the controllers can find you easier.

This ✓
Robert Reifsnyder
Albuquerque ARTCC

Kyle Ekas

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 03:13:22 am »
When I am on center, I much prefer the pilot to call in even if I am busy. As long as they give a VOR or Airport they are close to, then I can find them quickly. "AAL123 with you FL320..." Doesn't help me much if you're coming from Unicom. If you are coming from another center or approach controller, I know you're coming before you get to me, so in that circumstance the aforementioned is acceptable.

As a pilot I also usually try and be aware of if there are other centers on close by using vattastic. If someone comes online, I will usually take the initiative to check in with them.

K

Evan Reiter

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2018, 09:27:55 am »
Agree with what's been posted above; it is the pilot's responsibility to contact ATC, not the other way around, and that applies on the network too, as a former VATUSA1 loved to tell his students. The use of the "contact me" is something I'm not a fan of, and often I'll just leave pilots alone who seem to not want to talk to me. Sometimes, I'll even get people say "oh yeah, I knew I was in your airspace, but was just waiting for the contact me".  :-\

Please do check in as soon as (or even a little before) you enter the controller's airspace.


Evan Reiter
Boston Virtual ARTCC Community Manager
evanr@bvartcc.com

Robert Shearman Jr

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 10:00:51 am »
Josh -- just to jump on the bandwagon, yes, it's the pilot's responsibility, as per the Code of Conduct.  Many controllers will send a Contact-Me but that's a courtesy and shouldn't be relied upon as an expectation.
Cheers,
-R.

Kyle Ekas

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 03:29:38 pm »
Josh -- just to jump on the bandwagon, yes, it's the pilot's responsibility, as per the Code of Conduct.  Many controllers will send a Contact-Me but that's a courtesy and shouldn't be relied upon as an expectation.

+1

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 09:00:31 am »
I just don't understand the "it's the pilots responsibility, end of story" mentality.

Pilots aren't required to undergo training.  Pilots aren't required to know what any of the VATSIM tracking tools are.  Expecting them to know where enroute airspace is may be easier than others, but it's a joint responsibility.  It's a game and our job to provide a customer service -- we work for the pilots.  If you're doing ATC, you should want to do that, and if you want to do that, you should be willing to send a contact-me.

And if you want to talk sub-enroute airspace, those boundaries are not documented anywhere for a pilot, so expecting them to know where your approach airspace starts is an unrealistic expectation.
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
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Toby Rice

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 09:18:48 am »

And if you want to talk sub-enroute airspace, those boundaries are not documented anywhere for a pilot, so expecting them to know where your approach airspace starts is an unrealistic expectation.

They can estimate airspace entry on VATSpy or VATTASTIC.
Toby Rice
ATC Instructor (I1)
Jacksonville ARTCC
VATUSA ACE Team | CFI/CFII | Former HCF ATM
toby.rice@zjxartcc.org


Andrew Morkunas

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 03:49:01 pm »
Quote
When I am on center, I much prefer the pilot to call in even if I am busy. As long as they give a VOR or Airport they are close to, then I can find them quickly. "AAL123 with you FL320..." Doesn't help me much if you're coming from Unicom. If you are coming from another center or approach controller, I know you're coming before you get to me, so in that circumstance the aforementioned is acceptable.

That is one of my top ten pet peeves, "AAL123 with you FL230 - AAL123, NY_CTR I'm with you too."  As in real estate 'Location Location Location' is key when checking in, please tell me your location.

Another situation I come across are pilots checking in insisting that VATSpy or some other VATSIM viewer shows them in my airspace not realizing that at their current altitude they are not.  VATSpy is only a two dimensional map and does not show airspace altitudes.  I have argued with pilots who did not understand this.  When you hear "AAL123 outside of by airspace," please believe me.
Andrew Morkunas
Cleveland Deputy Air Traffic Manager
VATSIM Supervisor


Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 04:15:03 pm »

And if you want to talk sub-enroute airspace, those boundaries are not documented anywhere for a pilot, so expecting them to know where your approach airspace starts is an unrealistic expectation.

They can estimate airspace entry on VATSpy or VATTASTIC.

Who has a TRACON facility that's a perfect circle and anywhere near the VATSpy diameter?
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org

Toby Rice

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 04:35:30 pm »

And if you want to talk sub-enroute airspace, those boundaries are not documented anywhere for a pilot, so expecting them to know where your approach airspace starts is an unrealistic expectation.

They can estimate airspace entry on VATSpy or VATTASTIC.

Who has a TRACON facility that's a perfect circle and anywhere near the VATSpy diameter?

If you call up approach within a rough 20 miles from the border, it's close. Estimate it. My 2 pennies.
Toby Rice
ATC Instructor (I1)
Jacksonville ARTCC
VATUSA ACE Team | CFI/CFII | Former HCF ATM
toby.rice@zjxartcc.org


Sergio Lopez

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 04:45:13 pm »

And if you want to talk sub-enroute airspace, those boundaries are not documented anywhere for a pilot, so expecting them to know where your approach airspace starts is an unrealistic expectation.

They can estimate airspace entry on VATSpy or VATTASTIC.

Who has a TRACON facility that's a perfect circle and anywhere near the VATSpy diameter?

Will change on Vattastic V2, but for now, there's nothing out there that specifies sectors to pilots.
Sergio Lopez
AIT at vZMA ARTCC
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Dhruv Kalra

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 06:42:21 pm »
Who has a TRACON facility that's a perfect circle and anywhere near the VATSpy diameter?

How about if they just call Approach leaving the flight levels or 50nm from destination, whichever comes first? Either one is close enough.
Dhruv Kalra
ZMP ATM | Instructor | Grumpy Old Man

Matthew Kosmoski

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Re: Entering airspace of En-route controllers
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 07:47:40 pm »
Who has a TRACON facility that's a perfect circle and anywhere near the VATSpy diameter?

How about if they just call Approach leaving the flight levels or 50nm from destination, whichever comes first? Either one is close enough.

So, we're expecting the pilots to do this, but we're unwilling to do the same and hit two buttons when they get close?
Matthew Kosmoski
Air Traffic Manager | ZHU ARTCC
mkosmoski@zhuartcc.org
www.zhuartcc.org